Open carry of non-firearm weapon in Baltimore City

mvee · Mar 10, 2011

Ed, as a policeman , how do you determine that he had the "intent and purpose of causing injury to [____(name/others] in an unlawful manner"

What he is describing is that he would only use the Ka-Bar in self defense, which I believe, is a lawful manner.

I'm not trying to bash you, I just wanted to know how that law is interpreted and enforced. How do the police determine intent? Thanks.

WeaponsCollector · Mar 10, 2011

KABAR?
Why risk it, get a legal knife that's EVEN BIGGER and EASY TO CONCEAL!
Like the Cold Steel Voyager X2!

pop-gunner · Mar 10, 2011

I think what Ed is saying is self defense will get you locked up if you use that as an answer when asked why you are carrying. Self defense with a blade will cause injury to someone and therefore carrying it for self defense is carrying it with the intent to injure.
While self defense may well be legal and justified carrying that particular tool for that purpose is illegal.
You may do better just saying it's for peeling apples or opening boxes.

WARPIG [USMC] · Mar 10, 2011

pop-gunner said:
I think what Ed is saying is self defense will get you locked up if you use that as an answer when asked why you are carrying. Self defense with a blade will cause injury to someone and therefore carrying it for self defense is carrying it with the intent to injure.
While self defense may well be legal and justified carrying that particular tool for that purpose is illegal.
You may do better just saying it's for peeling apples or opening boxes.

With that logic, how could we ever expect to carry a firearm for the same reason?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Ethan83 · Mar 10, 2011

edhallor said:
I'm not sure about a Cop loosing Big Time for a non existent knife law? nor am I sure where you are getting your news? but here are the things that will get you in trouble in Baltimore.

I get my news from real life. Sorrell v. McGuigan. Not understanding the law may land citizens in jail, but cops that don't understand the law are still personally, civilly liable for false arrest.

pop-gunner · Mar 10, 2011

WARPIG [USMC];1017842 said:
With that logic, how could we ever expect to carry a firearm for the same reason?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Well that's gonna depend on how the law is written not isn't it.
The law we have now simply says if you carry it with intent to injure you break the law.
If you carry it and are stopped and asked why you are carrying it and you say self defense you have broken the law.

I think with firearms it's a totally different as the lawsuits out there right now and our recent victories with Heller and McDonald have been with the right to self defense with a firearm.

edhallor · Mar 11, 2011

mvee said:
Ed, as a policeman , how do you determine that he had the "intent and purpose of causing injury to [____(name/others] in an unlawful manner"

What he is describing is that he would only use the Ka-Bar in self defense, which I believe, is a lawful manner.

I'm not trying to bash you, I just wanted to know how that law is interpreted and enforced. How do the police determine intent? Thanks.

It's in the way he formatted his statement. Had he said he was carrying the K-Bar as a tool he would have most likely been on safe ground. Once he indicated he was carrying for "Protection" he indicated his intent to use the Knife as a Weapon. He even went on to identify the group of persons he may "If Provoked use the knife against.

Unfortunately as we all know Laws are designed to protect criminals. Also unfortunately in Law we are not afforded a Right to carry a Weapon to protect ourselves. Let me correct that to say Maryland refuses to respect our Rights to self protection.

As I have advised many folks, if you think you may be on the wrong side of the Law "Shut Up" you will be your own worst enemy.

In the noted case it could just as well been a "Tire Iron" The key words here were "Protection" and identifying a potential person the object would be used against.

As my good friend Judge Gurstung used to say "A knife in itself is a Tool, It's your mouth that makes it a Weapon."

Had I been the Officer in a situation like that (If at all possible) I would have taken the Gentleman out of ear shout and given a little Fatherly advice.

I write at least a dozen letters a Month to Annapolis pertaining to Victim Rights and 2A issues. I agree with and support the OP unfortunately the Law does not.

Ed

edhallor · Mar 12, 2011

Ethan83 said:
I get my news from real life. Sorrell v. McGuigan. Not understanding the law may land citizens in jail, but cops that don't understand the law are still personally, civilly liable for false arrest.

That Case does not apply here. Sorrell was arrested for just possessing a Pocket Knife, which is clearly not a Crime.

In the Case the OP sited the Person was carrying a K-Bar with intent to use it if provoked/ threatened which would make it a violation under;

MISDEMEANOR
$1,000.00 - 3 YEARS
*1_5200* **DANGEROUS WEAPON-INT/INJURE**
...did openly wear and carry _____ (state weapon), a dangerous
weapon, with the intent and purpose of causing injury to
[____(name/others] in an unlawful manner.
Rev

This is the type of thing I try to advise against, and that is trying to apply Case Law where it does not apply.
501 E. Eager St. is crowded with Street Corner Attorneys. Be careful you do not become one.

Ed

Minuteman · Mar 12, 2011

Teemus said:
Here is an idea for comething that no one has mentioned. Do you know someone who has a police scanner? If so, then you're halfway there. Go to your local electronics outlet and buy a digital voice recorder. Go to your friend's house some Friday or Saturday evening when the weather is good and record the Baltimore City police channel for about a couple of hours (those little recorders will hold up to 37 hours worth of recordings. Then, when you are walking from your car to the office, play the police calls a little louder than necessary. Let the junkies think that you are an undercover cop. They will avoid you like Democrats avoiding a tax cut. If any of them speak to you respond by asking them loudly if they want to become an "ear" for you. That will spell certain death for the junkie if it is overheard and one of the other junkies will rid the planet of them for the rest of us.

Brilliant!

Also like pepperspray suggestion, and MarkP's advice to pick a few of the best.

Minuteman · Mar 12, 2011

What non-self defense (pitiful*) excuse could one use for having pepperspray?

*pitiful, because it's a shame in Maryland one can not legally Carry a weapon for self defense (few exceptions).

PresentArms · Mar 12, 2011

A church Key is most effective if it gets down to business

Bohlieve410 · Mar 16, 2011

Theoretically, what would happen if you were to use edged weapon in self defense? Say against 3 hoodlums kicking the crap out of you (actually happend to me in Gaithersburg)?

I heard once that if you face more than 1 attacker or an armed (knife, bat, knuckles) you could return with "reasonable force".

Are you just supposed to take it? Or would it be judge's discretion?

pop-gunner · Mar 16, 2011

Bohlieve410 said:
Theoretically, what would happen if you were to use edged weapon in self defense? Say against 3 hoodlums kicking the crap out of you (actually happend to me in Gaithersburg)?

You might get to live to find out what happens next

edhallor · Mar 17, 2011

Bohlieve410 said:
Theoretically, what would happen if you were to use edged weapon in self defense? Say against 3 hoodlums kicking the crap out of you (actually happend to me in Gaithersburg)?

I heard once that if you face more than 1 attacker or an armed (knife, bat, knuckles) you could return with "reasonable force".

Are you just supposed to take it? Or would it be judge's discretion?

The unfortunate fact in Baltimore your Attackers would hire a Lawyer (Actually get a Baltimore Ambo Chaser for Free, you see them on TV all of the time) claim you were the Aggressor and have ten eyewitnesses to prove it.

You may find yourself both in Criminal, and Civil Court before Liberal Judges ready to Bankrupt and Jail you.

There is only one sure solution, don't put yourself in that situation, if you must than you just pray for the best.

There are things you can do to lessen you chances of an attack.
Stay away from areas known to be frequented by Scumbags.
If it's a Ball Game or Dinner, go in Groups and park close in a well lit area.
If you must go to Baltimore, or other troubled Urban Areas then learn Urban Survival, and by Urban Survival I do not mean the use of Weapons, I mean the use of Common Sense.

If you feel you must use a Weapon than you are on your own and good luck to you.

Ed

Bohlieve410 · Mar 17, 2011

Thank you both for the thoughtful responses. At least bankrupt and jailed I'll still be alive

Carry on, I didn't mean to derail the thread OP!

edhallor · Mar 19, 2011

Bohlieve410 said:
Thank you both for the thoughtful responses. At least bankrupt and jailed I'll still be alive

Carry on, I didn't mean to derail the thread OP!

I could not agree more, when that time comes I, like you will be the one walking away. I pray that time never comes.

I believe in a man's right to self defense, but am a realist when it comes to living in a Liberal State like Murderland.

Ed

Bohlieve410 · Mar 19, 2011

edhallor said:
I could not agree more, when that time comes I, like you will be the one walking away. I pray that time never comes.

I believe in a man's right to self defense, but am a realist when it comes to living in a Liberal State like Murderland.

Ed

+1. Thank you for your advice and your service!

@Ethan -Mace is always an option...tactical pen.... etc. If you need some advice on a folder shoot me a PM, I been Kershaw/ZT fanatic for years and would be glad to help if you wish to get a folder...

Ethan83 · Mar 19, 2011

Bohlieve410 said:
+1. Thank you for your advice and your service!

@Ethan -Mace is always an option...tactical pen.... etc. If you need some advice on a folder shoot me a PM, I been Kershaw/ZT fanatic for years and would be glad to help if you wish to get a folder...

A Kimber Pepperblaster, Kershaw Leek, and Surefire E2D are always a part of my EDC

ProShooter · Mar 19, 2011

PresentArms said:
A church Key is most effective if it gets down to business

I haven't heard one of those called a church key since before my father passed. Thank you for that. That word brought back memories.

ProShooter · Mar 19, 2011

For anyone interested in pepper spray, we offer a Sabre pepper spray class. Sabre is the best stuff on the market.

http://proactiveshooters.com/sabre-pepper-spray-civilian-safety-awareness-program-csap/

Open carry of non-firearm weapon in Baltimore City

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