MSP Got one... Instructor caught cutting corners, permits invalidated.

[swinokur]

Temporarily closed?

Lol


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[rbird7282]

This is what you get when imbeciles write a law. As Sgt. Pickle keeps stressing: "The law says 16 hours of training." That's about the end of the hard and fast specific requirements.

Problem is, do we really want the State deciding what the actual material should be? They can barely wipe their own ass, much less come up with a training syllabus that covers everything and can be taught to both newbs and seasoned shooters alike.

 

[Bertfish]

Problem is, do we really want the State deciding what the actual material should be? They can barely wipe their own ass, much less come up with a training syllabus that covers everything and can be taught to both newbs and seasoned shooters alike.

Yes. Then instructors cannot be accused of doing too little. Follow this curriculum.

Even better the state should be forced to provide the training free of charge if they choose to mandate it

 

[rbird7282]

Yes. Then instructors cannot be accused of doing too little. Follow this curriculum.

Even better the state should be forced to provide the training free of charge if they choose to mandate it

Ugh. I understand your point but everything the state touches turns to sh*t.

I agree that ANY state mandated firearm training should be paid for by the state.
Of course I oppose any required training but that's a different issue.

 

[Boondock Saint]

The less the state decides, the better.

"Free" training would paid for with tax dollars in what will universally be recognized as an inefficient manner. In such a scenario we could consider ourselves lucky if it's not actually the most inefficient manner possible.

No, thanks.

 

[Storm40]

In this thread, people accepting training requirements as even remotely Constitutional in any case.

 

[Johnconlee]

The up side of this will be the lawsuits to begin the court cases against training. The downside of course is more time and money wasted to exercise a right. In the meantime if you want a permit play by the rules.

I bought my first pistol at 21, that’s 13 years waiting to get a permit. For the last ten I’ve enjoyed carrying on my property and out of state. I’d sit through way more than 16 hours if that’s what was required to get a permit.

 

[Spaceballs]

This is what you get when imbeciles write a law. As Sgt. Pickle keeps stressing: "The law says 16 hours of training." That's about the end of the hard and fast specific requirements.

And to the letter of the law 16 hours of training means 16 hours of TRAINING. Not 16 hours in a classroom.

Did the instruction allow 5 minute bathroom breaks? Sorry, your class was only 15 hours and 55 minutes.

What about the pauses in between words? Those seconds he takes to breath while teaching add up to minutes Your class was only 15 hours and 58 minutes.

Technically they could get that arbitrary. It's the problem with generic language in laws. Or that they judge it on time and not on content.

 

[swinokur]

How can DC make this work but MD can’t?

Pretty pathetic


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[Sundazes]

How can DC make this work but MD can’t?

Pretty pathetic


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Because Maryland), that’s why.

 

[swinokur]

Because Maryland), that’s why.

Where everything is a fuster cluck


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[welder516]

We all know freedom should not be regulated but shortcuts are mostly more work.

 

[1841DNG]

The less the state decides, the better.

"Free" training would paid for with tax dollars in what will universally be recognized as an inefficient manner. In such a scenario we could consider ourselves lucky if it's not actually the most inefficient manner possible.

No, thanks.

I am fully against these mandatory obstacles to our rights but if the state did want to encourage training they could say give tax credits to cover some costs. I read that West Virginia did that a few years ago. I am not opposed to county sheriffs offering some training.

You are right about free coming out of tax dollars but we are already in a scenario where our tax dollars are looted to reward progressives. That type of plunder is not going away and at least rewarding some good behavior would be an improvement.

 

[miles71]

Training is training. We can argue all day about what we think it "should" be but need to realize what it "is". I am sure classes that have a lunch break a little longer than other is not the issue, its the class that are 2 hour long "16 hour" classes.

A curriculum, in any education, is a minimum and should leave room for more advanced concepts if the class progresses. They should also be concept based with the flexibility to adjust. BUT until the state creates or adopts a curriculum all instructors must follow we will continue to have inconsistent instruction, some to the point of going against the law.

Sorry, but instructors short cutting should be punished, as should students looking for such short cuts.

TD

 

[teratos]

In this thread, people accepting training requirements as even remotely Constitutional in any case.

I don’t see it that way. It’s a hoop we have to jump through until it can be challenged. Revocation of these permits my be a golden opportunity.

 

[rseymorejr]

What is someone suppose to do if they book a class, in good faith, and the instructor calls it a day after 14 hours?
What is the student expected to do at that point?

If you paypal somebody $200 and they email you a completion certificate then yes, revoke your permit. But that's
a little different from quiting a little early.

 

[Biggfoot44]

2 hour 16hr classes - obvious
No Show classes - obvious

12- 14 hour classes , where the students pass any written tests , and shoot qualifying scores ? I could see discipline / suspend/ revoke the Instructor's certification , but not automatically revoke the students .

 

[miles71]

The problem can be solved, if the solutions are listened too.

TD

 

[ThisOrThat]

Drew Green was caught by MSP not meeting their standards. They've revoked all permits issued related to his classes. To his credit, he called my buddy (who took his class) and is getting him in with a new QHIC for no cost.

MSP inserted an "agent" to relay back to the state the quality of instruction. Be warned.

Do we know why though? How was he not meeting the standards?

 

[scottyfz6]

How can DC make this work but MD can’t?

Pretty pathetic


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Dc made it work because to get the instructor cert for DC you need to turn in a course plan and syllabus. You actually have to turn in an example of what your going to teach, unlike MD who just says you need 16 hours fill it how you want to.