How Far Inside Md Would You Travel For Training?

[357Max]

I think Alexanders has W&C classes that are just for Delaware. It’d be nice if someone set up a MD W&C class there. I already drive the hr to that range almost every weekend.

 

[Blaster229]

Having spent, easily, without counting, over 200 hours in firearms training in the last year, I have ZERO interest in any course that will have beginners shooting while moving, or doing non standard positions or any other advanced type of training. I like my tourniquet to stay clean.

Good for you.
Since you have this massive resume of TWO HUNDRED HOURS. Tell us, what is a "standard" position in a self defense shoot?

 

[Blaster229]

I think Alexanders has W&C classes that are just for Delaware. It’d be nice if someone set up a MD W&C class there. I already drive the hr to that range almost every weekend.

We aren't interested in doing WC classes.

 

[Johnny5k]

Something around 6-8 hours. Consisting of situational awareness, use of force, conceal carry techniques, then hit the range. The range can be basic shooting techniques leading into some light shoot move stuff, multiple targets, and some out of ordinary position shooting, say laying and shooting at a threat as if you were shooting from bed. Something better than just "Here's how you hold a pistol".

I'd say, standing up, but you're the instructor. Why don't you tell me what you mean by "some out of ordinary position shooting".

Yeah, lets have some beginners lay down, draw and start shooting around their toes.

You sound like my progressive liberal friends, "Why would you do all that training?" It's the responsible thing to do, and I enjoy it.

 

[Blaster229]

I'd say, standing up, but you're the instructor. Why don't you tell me what you mean by "some out of ordinary position shooting".

Yeah, lets have some beginners lay down, draw and start shooting around their toes.

You sound like my progressive liberal friends, "Why would you do all that training?" It's the responsible thing to do, and I enjoy it.

First of all, laying down on your side simulates laying in bed. No one draws. It's perfectly safe picking up your pistol loaded with 1 round and taking a shot to a target. No one said shooting through the toes.
Maybe you should look for some courses that take you out of your element, because you aren't always going to be standing up.
How many of your 25, 8 hour courses had you shooting from a sitting position? I'll say none.

 

[jrumann59]

SIMS is expensive and you need to become a certified range and scenario instructor.

Yes I know, looking at different things and seeing how local PDs in the NOVA have been doing things the other options is plot of land that is isolated either by natural barriers or distance and building your own live shooting courses with proper barriers so that you can operate multiple classes without fear. Far easier to do in states that not MD for the most part

 

[4g64loser]

I'd say, standing up, but you're the instructor. Why don't you tell me what you mean by "some out of ordinary position shooting".

Yeah, lets have some beginners lay down, draw and start shooting around their toes.

You sound like my progressive liberal friends, "Why would you do all that training?" It's the responsible thing to do, and I enjoy it.

I don't know you or blaster personally but I'm just curious why you believe that his course wouldn't be run safely. Do you know him? Trained with him? Have inside dope that he's a closet liberal progressive?

Or did miss the sarcasm and you aren't actually crapping on his thread, you are his buddy and just pinging him?

 

[jrumann59]

I don't know you or blaster personally but I'm just curious why you believe that his course wouldn't be run safely. Do you know him? Trained with him? Have inside dope that he's a closet liberal progressive?

Or did miss the sarcasm and you aren't actually crapping on his thread, you are his buddy and just pinging him?

It would not be anymore dangerous than the stuff we see at ranges every day.

 

[Blaster229]

Yes I know, looking at different things and seeing how local PDs in the NOVA have been doing things the other options is plot of land that is isolated either by natural barriers or distance and building your own live shooting courses with proper barriers so that you can operate multiple classes without fear. Far easier to do in states that not MD for the most part

Some years ago, there was an IP here, and they had SIMS set up in a small business warehouse nearby in Odenton. Not sure why they went out of business, but I think the SIMS cost was one of them.

 

[Blaster229]

I don't know you or blaster personally but I'm just curious why you believe that his course wouldn't be run safely. Do you know him? Trained with him? Have inside dope that he's a closet liberal progressive?

Or did miss the sarcasm and you aren't actually crapping on his thread, you are his buddy and just pinging him?

I knew my new avatar would make me come across as weak and inexperienced. LOL

 

[Johnny5k]

It would not be anymore dangerous than the stuff we see at ranges every day.

No, it legitimately sounds unsafe to me, maybe he just isn't describing it very well. I assume he is very safe.
To make such a thing safe for beginners, running a cold range, would take an inordinate amount of time unless it was 1 on 1 training. 6-8 hours to take someone from basic shooting techniques into non-standard positions, does not sound safe to me. Maybe he just meant verifying everyone was already unconsciously competent with basic shooting techniques, I don't know. Maybe he means 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 training. Again, I don't know.

 

[jrumann59]

No, it legitimately sounds unsafe to me, maybe he just isn't describing it very well. I assume he is very safe.
To make such a thing safe for beginners, running a cold range, would take an inordinate amount of time unless it was 1 on 1 training. 6-8 hours to take someone from basic shooting techniques into non-standard positions, does not sound safe to me. Maybe he just meant verifying everyone was already unconsciously competent with basic shooting techniques, I don't know.

I don't know what you are envisioning but I envision his classes being group oriented with 1 person running through the course at a time, and I figure the course would have all targets down range.

 

[Blaster229]

No, it legitimately sounds unsafe to me, maybe he just isn't describing it very well. I assume he is very safe.
To make such a thing safe for beginners, running a cold range, would take an inordinate amount of time unless it was 1 on 1 training. 6-8 hours to take someone from basic shooting techniques into non-standard positions, does not sound safe to me. Maybe he just meant verifying everyone was already unconsciously competent with basic shooting techniques, I don't know. Maybe he means 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 training. Again, I don't know.

It doesn't take long to run 10 people, 1 person at a time, to shoot a few rounds, 1 round at a time laying on their left or right side shooting at a target 7 ish yards away.

I've seen Delta boys teaching 20 new shooters on a line laying on their backs, shooting over their heads back to targets 15 yards away. Full 15 round mags in their P229 Sig .357s.
So there's that.

 

[4g64loser]

It would not be anymore dangerous than the stuff we see at ranges every day.

Yeah, I'll agree with this. I see some really bad weapon handling and some very unsafe movement more often than I'd like to admit. Enforcement of communicated range SOP is strictly the responsibility of the instructor cadre. The best ones make the expectations clear and tolerate no deviation. Much easier to do this when training civilians, actually. Training in house personnel, it's harder to bounce a behavior problem.

 

[Johnny5k]

First of all, laying down on your side simulates laying in bed. No one draws. It's perfectly safe picking up your pistol loaded with 1 round and taking a shot to a target. No one said shooting through the toes.
Maybe you should look for some courses that take you out of your element, because you aren't always going to be standing up.
How many of your 25, 8 hour courses had you shooting from a sitting position? I'll say none.

Lol. You'd be dead wrong. I've trained in very advanced classes, with navy seals, army rangers, and current world record holding marksmen. I had half of the field when the record was broken in one of my classes. Done seated, prone, supine, close contact, sides and rear draws, brokeback(navy seal guys term), in out and around vehicles, shoot houses, full auto, shotgun, and probably plenty more I can't think of.

Maybe you should stop making assumptions about people and take some criticism from someone who put his money where his mouth is and sought out advanced training like it was a full time job in the last year or so.

 

[Blaster229]

Yeah, I'll agree with this. I see some really bad weapon handling and some very unsafe movement more often than I'd like to admit. Enforcement of communicated range SOP is strictly the responsibility of the instructor cadre. The best ones make the expectations clear and tolerate no deviation. Much easier to do this when training civilians, actually. Training in house personnel, it's harder to bounce a behavior problem.

We're not going to be into this for a huge class money grab. 2 of us with 8-10 students tops. It allows for better span of control and quality instruction. Plus doing small classes like that allows better scheduling. 1 class on a Saturday, 1 on Sunday. Options for people to make it. I don't fancy having 20 plus students per.

 

[Johnny5k]

It doesn't take long to run 10 people, 1 person at a time, to shoot a few rounds, 1 round at a time laying on their left or right side shooting at a target 7 ish yards away.

I've seen Delta boys teaching 20 new shooters on a line laying on their backs, shooting over their heads back to targets 15 yards away. Full 15 round mags in their P229 Sig .357s.
So there's that.

It might not take that long, but that time would be better served teaching them how to install a door and lock that will wake them up before a bad guy gets into their bedroom. Zero chance anyone gets shot that way.

Besides, who the hell is still laying down when someone breaks into their bedroom, anyone would be sitting up before they ever thought to grab a pistol.

 

[4g64loser]

I knew my new avatar would make me come across as weak and inexperienced. LOL

I don't think your avatar means squat. And as an instructor (who is focused mostly on long guns, especially those of precision type) I doubt I would feel unsafe in the class you describe. You sound motivated and that counts for a lot.

I can't compete with 200hrs a year in training, though. Between the two jobs it's hard enough for me to shoot handguns enough to do the DCJS qual with three of them and not look like a tard.

 

[Blaster229]

Lol. You'd be dead wrong. I've trained in very advanced classes, with navy seals, army rangers, and current world record holding marksmen. I had half of the field when the record was broken in one of my classes. Done seated, prone, supine, close contact, sides and rear draws, brokeback(navy seal guys term), in out and around vehicles, shoot houses, full auto, shotgun, and probably plenty more I can't think of.

Maybe you should stop making assumptions about people and take some criticism from someone who put his money where his mouth is and sought out advanced training like it was a full time job in the last year or so.

I'll just take it from my own experience having done it with people already. Thanks for your input.

 

[smokey]

Dang, it would be very cool to get to shoot with the GBRS guys. FAM and devgru instructors would offer skill sets that just don't exist in many places.