What did you learn at your Wear & Carry training class that you didn't know before attending?

[Blaster229]

The Texas church shooting indicates the vast majority of people will not stand up straight and run around.

You ever sit in a church pew, let alone stand up right perfectly? Not that easy. There are 2 entrances and exits in a row of pews. Of course they aren't running around. They are restricted severely.

Much like a theatre.

 

[INMY01TA]

Your Instructor told you incorrectly . The answer for DC is 1 year .

Ok I probably misunderstood. I asked if I could come back next summer and do the 2hr law class I assumed I’d be good for two years on it.

 

[Biggfoot44]

The class is good for 2yr for Md , 1yr DC .

 

[smokey]

Another one that I though was common sense but after listening to the class I found out it wasn’t.

While the class was running through shoot/no shoot situations, if in a movie theater shooting incident. If shooter is in row 1 and you are in row 6. Most in the class responded that they would draw and try to eliminate the threat from the 6th row. Instructor had to inform most in the class that not only do you need to know what’s behind your target, you need to know what’s in front of the target. And that it is indeed illegal to shoot over people.


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She told my class that scenario too. I responded, "I'd likely be there with my kids, so I would grab them, and get out because my responsibility is to them". She said the exits are blocked and there's no path to escape. I then said, "in that case, I'd have them get as low a possible and put my oldest in charge of my backpack with the iiia panel. Then I'd figure out how to address the threat". She pressed, "how exactly". I said, "It's hugely situationally dependent, but I'd do my best to use the seats as concealment while working to clear an open background and foreground to put shots on the threat". She dismissed that, saying it would be too dark to see... to which I shined a flashlight in the corner of the room.

Her conclusion to THAT scenario was that it's unlawful to use your gun with that many innocent people around, but it's her character to run to badguys, so she'd leave her gun holstered and run to fight the gunman with bare hands.... so about the worst advice possible.

She also gave the scenario, "you're in the arundel mills food court and a gunfight erupts between the man sitting next to you and a man across the food court about 40 yards away(this class was before dicken). The man next to you is hit and his gun runs dry. He says he's a fed and the other guy continues firing in your direction. There's nothing for cover. What do you do".

I said it's again situationally dependent, but if you have a gun, you have cover because if you have a clear foreground and background, firing itself at the threat is a form of cover to use for movement. She later said that would be illegal(to fire back at the man firing at you??). I also said I couldn't directly render aid to the fed until the threat was dealt with, but I could toss him my tourniquet or hemostatic gauze for self-aid and see if I could drag him to cover(likely a structural column) when it made sense to do so.

She joked that nobody ever carries a tq and she has never carried a tq. I pulled mine out from my cargo pocket and said people should if they're carrying a gun.

Her conclusion was you should ask the fed what he needs and give him your carry gun. Fun times.

 

[pop-gunner]

Here's the law...neither two mentioned of being locked.

Maryland Code, Criminal Law § 4-203



(3) the carrying of a handgun on the person or in a vehicle while the person is transporting the handgun to or from the place of legal purchase or sale, or to or from a bona fide repair shop, or between bona fide residences of the person, or between the bona fide residence and place of business of the person, if the business is operated and owned substantially by the person if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

(4) the wearing, carrying, or transporting by a person of a handgun used in connection with an organized military activity, a target shoot, formal or informal target practice, sport shooting event, hunting, a Department of Natural Resources-sponsored firearms and hunter safety class, trapping, or a dog obedience training class or show, while the person is engaged in, on the way to, or returning from that activity if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

you forgot the 2nd most important reason to get your collectors status....

• (5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

 

[Mark75H]

you forgot the 2nd most important reason to get your collectors status....

• (5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

Unfortunately, this does not issue state bona fides. There is no such legal definition

 

[Mark75H]

She told my class ...

Her conclusion was you should ask the fed what he needs and give him your carry gun. Fun times.

Remind me not to even read any more of her garbage

 

[smokey]

Remind me not to even read any more of her garbage

It was hugely frustrating for me because 1) I genuinely like everyone in that store as people because they've been cool to deal with and I always see them fighting with us in Annapolis. 2) it was a $350 class with LOTs of hurry up and wait included along with outright wrong information.

 

[TRON 2.0]

She told my class that scenario too. I responded, "I'd likely be there with my kids, so I would grab them, and get out because my responsibility is to them". She said the exits are blocked and there's no path to escape. I then said, "in that case, I'd have them get as low a possible and put my oldest in charge of my backpack with the iiia panel. Then I'd figure out how to address the threat". She pressed, "how exactly". I said, "It's hugely situationally dependent, but I'd do my best to use the seats as concealment while working to clear an open background and foreground to put shots on the threat". She dismissed that, saying it would be too dark to see... to which I shined a flashlight in the corner of the room.

Her conclusion to THAT scenario was that it's unlawful to use your gun with that many innocent people around, but it's her character to run to badguys, so she'd leave her gun holstered and run to fight the gunman with bare hands.... so about the worst advice possible.

She also gave the scenario, "you're in the arundel mills food court and a gunfight erupts between the man sitting next to you and a man across the food court about 40 yards away(this class was before dicken). The man next to you is hit and his gun runs dry. He says he's a fed and the other guy continues firing in your direction. There's nothing for cover. What do you do".

I said it's again situationally dependent, but if you have a gun, you have cover because if you have a clear foreground and background, firing itself at the threat is a form of cover to use for movement. She later said that would be illegal(to fire back at the man firing at you??). I also said I couldn't directly render aid to the fed until the threat was dealt with, but I could toss him my tourniquet or hemostatic gauze for self-aid and see if I could drag him to cover(likely a structural column) when it made sense to do so.

She joked that nobody ever carries a tq and she has never carried a tq. I pulled mine out from my cargo pocket and said people should if they're carrying a gun.

Her conclusion was you should ask the fed what he needs and give him your carry gun. Fun times.

Yep, same scenarios she gave our class. Funny. I had my tq on my bag during that class.

One thing that did bother me about the training class, she started the class by saying how she wanted to make sure we knew as much as we could before we got our permits because there were some instructors out there just signing off on the training and collecting the money.

Once In the class we had a lot of waiting around and maybe 5 hours of true instruction. I really enjoyed the 3 mins I had on the simulator and then the 1.5 hours of instruction on holster draw and technique. Then we had what seemed like the bare minimum of lecture. But the rest of that was waiting around or filling out applications.

I do plan on getting more training elsewhere and getting more range time.


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[TRON 2.0]

It was hugely frustrating for me because 1) I genuinely like everyone in that store as people because they've been cool to deal with and I always see them fighting with us in Annapolis. 2) it was a $350 class with LOTs of hurry up and wait included along with outright wrong information.

Yeah I would agree, I did enjoy talking with and shooting the shit with the everyone in the store. Hell I ended up buying two new toys while talking to them…. During the periods of hurry up and wait.

Makes you wonder what the $350 went to, it sure wasn’t used to improve the training. Maybe it was to pay for the pizza the class had on day 1?


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[smokey]

Yep, same scenarios she gave our class. Funny. I had my tq on my bag during that class.

One thing that did bother me about the training class, she started the class by saying how she wanted to make sure we knew as much as we could before we got our permits because there were some instructors out there just signing off on the training and collecting the money.

Once In the class we had a lot of waiting around and maybe 5 hours of true instruction. I really enjoyed the 3 mins I had on the simulator and then the 1.5 hours of instruction on holster draw and technique. Then we had what seemed like the bare minimum of lecture. But the rest of that was waiting around or filling out applications.

I do plan on getting more training elsewhere and getting more range time.


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The gun training was driving me nuts. They taught the old thumb-on-thumb grip instead of a modern thumbs forward grip. They kept walking by and "correcting" me to put my support thumb down. When we got the holsters, I tossed it appendix like I carry. She said I had to put it small of the back because, "appendix makes you more likely to sweep other people around you when drawing" and "small of the back carry is the best tactically" because it's "illegal if you print" because "we are getting a concealed carry permit". I just ran it 4 o'clock instead.

We then got taught a compressed position with strong side elbow on our hip, instead of a more modern pectoral index with the base plate near your pec. I asked if it would be a good idea to can't the slide away from your body(a guy next to me was effectively plastering the slide to his belly) and I was told casting the slide away from your body makes the gun more likely to malfunction. And on and on and on.

 

[hogarth]

Reading all of these "complaints"--for lack of a better term--in this and other threads makes me sad.

There's a reason I've gone out of state for 98% of the classes I've taken. Giving the NRA $ for some "instructor classes" and wearing an "instructor" hat does not make one an instructor. I mean, I guess it does, but it shouldn't.

And if people here think, when I post links to AARs of classes I've taken, that the quality of instruction I've been getting is equivalent to most of the crap these MD W&C instructors are putting out, they are sorely mistaken. Some of these instructors are charging CSAT money for these classes when they aren't qualified to teach a trash collector the proper way to lift the can.

 

[TRON 2.0]

The gun training was driving me nuts. They taught the old thumb-on-thumb grip instead of a modern thumbs forward grip. They kept walking by and "correcting" me to put my support thumb down. When we got the holsters, I tossed it appendix like I carry. She said I had to put it small of the back because, "appendix makes you more likely to sweep other people around you when drawing" and "small of the back carry is the best tactically" because it's "illegal if you print" because "we are getting a concealed carry permit". I just ran it 4 o'clock instead.

We then got taught a compressed position with strong side elbow on our hip, instead of a more modern pectoral index with the base plate near your pec. I asked if it would be a good idea to can't the slide away from your body(a guy next to me was effectively plastering the slide to his belly) and I was told casting the slide away from your body makes the gun more likely to malfunction. And on and on and on.

Sorry I meant I enjoyed the 3 mins on the simulator….. and there was 1.5 on the holster draw and shooting. Yeah I had issues with the way she said the small of the back is the only position we should carry everything else is wrong. The shooting from the hip was bs, I 100% would have had issues with clothing or stomach causing a jam if this was real life live fire. What was crazy, the woman at the table next to me was ended up getting her finger stuck in the chamber while following instructions on how to clear the gun.

I figure I should just keep my mouth shut, get the class completion s certification and then find real training else where.

I was actually looking at the Silver Eagle Group in VA for more training, they have a Concealed Carry Live class that looked interesting.

 

[rbird7282]

She told my class that scenario too. I responded, "I'd likely be there with my kids, so I would grab them, and get out because my responsibility is to them". She said the exits are blocked and there's no path to escape. I then said, "in that case, I'd have them get as low a possible and put my oldest in charge of my backpack with the iiia panel. Then I'd figure out how to address the threat". She pressed, "how exactly". I said, "It's hugely situationally dependent, but I'd do my best to use the seats as concealment while working to clear an open background and foreground to put shots on the threat". She dismissed that, saying it would be too dark to see... to which I shined a flashlight in the corner of the room.

Her conclusion to THAT scenario was that it's unlawful to use your gun with that many innocent people around, but it's her character to run to badguys, so she'd leave her gun holstered and run to fight the gunman with bare hands.... so about the worst advice possible.

She also gave the scenario, "you're in the arundel mills food court and a gunfight erupts between the man sitting next to you and a man across the food court about 40 yards away(this class was before dicken). The man next to you is hit and his gun runs dry. He says he's a fed and the other guy continues firing in your direction. There's nothing for cover. What do you do".

I said it's again situationally dependent, but if you have a gun, you have cover because if you have a clear foreground and background, firing itself at the threat is a form of cover to use for movement. She later said that would be illegal(to fire back at the man firing at you??). I also said I couldn't directly render aid to the fed until the threat was dealt with, but I could toss him my tourniquet or hemostatic gauze for self-aid and see if I could drag him to cover(likely a structural column) when it made sense to do so.

She joked that nobody ever carries a tq and she has never carried a tq. I pulled mine out from my cargo pocket and said people should if they're carrying a gun.

Her conclusion was you should ask the fed what he needs and give him your carry gun. Fun times.

The fact that this lady is teaching W&C classes is frightening. What a POS.

 

[Stoveman]

Are we talking about the Ginger?

 

[Biggfoot44]

Reading all of these "complaints"--for lack of a better term--in this and other threads makes me sad.

There's a reason I've gone out of state for 98% of the classes I've taken. Giving the NRA $ for some "instructor classes" and wearing an "instructor" hat does not make one an instructor. I mean, I guess it does, but it shouldn't.

And if people here think, when I post links to AARs of classes I've taken, that the quality of instruction I've been getting is equivalent to most of the crap these MD W&C instructors are putting out, they are sorely mistaken. Some of these instructors are charging CSAT money for these classes when they aren't qualified to teach a trash collector the proper way to lift the can.

The key difference in such classes , is that the attendees Want to be there . and Want to recieve knowledge . Enough to take their leisure time , and to voluntarily spend their own money .

Somewhere where the attendees are there as part of their job , the attitudes are very mixed . Some just want it over . Some have a finely tuned BS detector , and if the material is BS , or the instructor a fool . they'll tune out also .

The Md W&C Class ? The starting point is being a Poll Tax , and deliberately an harassment . Add in mandate to essentially replay an HQL class . Add in many of the even well meaning Instructors whose own knowledge base is limited to memorizing and repeating the particular course outline of the class they have certification for , and not a broader depth of the shooting arts . Add the actual fools and BS artists as Instructors .

 

[Blaster229]

She said small of back is the only way to carry?? Geezus Christ. She had to mean it's the only way NOT to carry.

 

[teratos]

She said small of back is the only way to carry?? Geezus Christ. She had to mean it's the only way NOT to carry.

You should do secret shopper videos.

 

[dblas]

you forgot the 2nd most important reason to get your collectors status....

• (5) the moving by a bona fide gun collector of part or all of the collector's gun collection from place to place for public or private exhibition if each handgun is unloaded and carried in an enclosed case or an enclosed holster;

The Designated Collector letter does not confer "bona fide Gun Collector" status to anyone that has one, and never has. It is simply a vehicle to get around the one firearm every 30 days requirement.

 

[Mr. Ed]

She said small of back is the only way to carry?? Geezus Christ. She had to mean it's the only way NOT to carry.

If folks are talking about the woman who owns W.A.S. I heard all that crap from her when I took a class from her years ago. She even said she requires all her staff to carry at the small of their backs. It's a shame that she can get away with teaching that BS, and a good thing that she's no longer active duty.