Potential legal trouble using >10-round magazine during home defense situation

[BlueRibbon]

http://www.wvnstv.com/virginia-news/update-virginia-tech-student-arrested-for-firearms-violation-denied-bond-by-judge/950185758

http://abcnews.go.com/US/virginia-tech-student-arrested-possessing-assault-rifle-attempting/story?id=52759734

It is not illegal for foreigners to purchase AR-15 or 30-round magazines in VA it appears, but once he inserted that 30-round into AR-15, it becomes an "assault weapon" which is is illegal for foreigners to own.

It is disturbing that in that ABC news that everyone is assuming he is doing harm, and glad police "potentially stopped a mass shooting", but it got me thinking about our own situation.

I understand MD doesn't ban possession of 10+ round magazines, but will it potentially give us legal trouble if such magazine is used in home defense, especially for guns purchased after 2013? One last thing you want to defend is the homeowner used an evil high capacity "illegal" magazine to kill that poor gentle guy.

What are you thoughts?

 

[danb]

Grounds for an excellent lawsuit. The SAF has won a lot of lawsuits for gun laws that discriminate against foreign, legal, residents. Not constitutional.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Infringement.

 

[Firedog1979]

Interesting. Thanks for posting! I was looking at a DC conceal carry permit and interesting enough DC has a ban on possession of any magazine over 10 rounds...and you can only carry enough to reload once if I recall correctly. Which means any individual should have no more than 20 rounds total on them. As a Md resident if I had a permit and was driving through DC with a Glock 19 with a full mag I would be in violation of the law. So I looked at Maryland law and did not see anything that would prohibit a homeowner from possessing a magazine over ten rounds so my assumption is it would not be a problem...while DC has a law prohibiting possession therefore probably an issue of using a magazine over 10 rounds...


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[Ranchero50]

MGA could push any law down our throats they chose to but haven't. Why?

 

[SigMatt]

http://www.wvnstv.com/virginia-news/update-virginia-tech-student-arrested-for-firearms-violation-denied-bond-by-judge/950185758

http://abcnews.go.com/US/virginia-tech-student-arrested-possessing-assault-rifle-attempting/story?id=52759734

It is not illegal for foreigners to purchase AR-15 or 30-round magazines in VA it appears, but once he inserted that 30-round into AR-15, it becomes an "assault weapon" which is is illegal for foreigners to own.

It is disturbing that in that ABC news that everyone is assuming he is doing harm, and glad police "potentially stopped a mass shooting", but it got me thinking about our own situation.

I understand MD doesn't ban possession of 10+ round magazines, but will it potentially give us legal trouble if such magazine is used in home defense, especially for guns purchased after 2013? One last thing you want to defend is the homeowner used an evil high capacity "illegal" magazine to kill that poor gentle guy.

What are you thoughts?

It's not a crime to possess a standard capacity magazine in Maryland nor use it. Thus I don't see an argument to be made in court that your use in self-defense was a heinous act.

And should a prosecutor decide to raise the issue, simply have your lawyer point out you deserve the same ability at self-defense as a police officer in similar circumstances, there is no law that says you can't and no one gets fined for having rounds left over but people do get dead for having none.

Matt

 

[MaxVO2]

http://www.wvnstv.com/virginia-news/update-virginia-tech-student-arrested-for-firearms-violation-denied-bond-by-judge/950185758

http://abcnews.go.com/US/virginia-tech-student-arrested-possessing-assault-rifle-attempting/story?id=52759734

It is not illegal for foreigners to purchase AR-15 or 30-round magazines in VA it appears, but once he inserted that 30-round into AR-15, it becomes an "assault weapon" which is is illegal for foreigners to own.

It is disturbing that in that ABC news that everyone is assuming he is doing harm, and glad police "potentially stopped a mass shooting", but it got me thinking about our own situation.

I understand MD doesn't ban possession of 10+ round magazines, but will it potentially give us legal trouble if such magazine is used in home defense, especially for guns purchased after 2013? One last thing you want to defend is the homeowner used an evil high capacity "illegal" magazine to kill that poor gentle guy.

What are you thoughts?

****I'm not a lawyer, and I hope never to have to shoot anyone, but it's always been my understanding that the 10 round cap mags are only illegal to sell in Maryland, with certain exceptions for Police and perhaps active military (?). It is not illegal to possess the magazines so I would think using them in a home defense situation would not be a problem, unless the person is banned from owning firearms, and other such issues.

I personally would not lose any sleep over using a *standard* (more than 10 rounds for many firearms...) capacity magazine for my personal home defense firearms. That's what I have in all of my guns. I only use the 10 round mags when I sell a firearm here in Maryland to stay within the law. It's a silly law as criminals by definition don't care about the 10 round law, nor "Gun Free Zone" signs I still see at certain establishments.

 

[zoostation]

http://www.wvnstv.com/virginia-news/update-virginia-tech-student-arrested-for-firearms-violation-denied-bond-by-judge/950185758

http://abcnews.go.com/US/virginia-tech-student-arrested-possessing-assault-rifle-attempting/story?id=52759734

It is not illegal for foreigners to purchase AR-15 or 30-round magazines in VA it appears, but once he inserted that 30-round into AR-15, it becomes an "assault weapon" which is is illegal for foreigners to own.

It is disturbing that in that ABC news that everyone is assuming he is doing harm, and glad police "potentially stopped a mass shooting", but it got me thinking about our own situation.

I understand MD doesn't ban possession of 10+ round magazines, but will it potentially give us legal trouble if such magazine is used in home defense, especially for guns purchased after 2013? One last thing you want to defend is the homeowner used an evil high capacity "illegal" magazine to kill that poor gentle guy.

What are you thoughts?

The laws involved are Virginia laws specific to foreign nationals possessing certain firearms passed after Virginia Tech happened. Not relevant here.

 

[Dammit_Man]

He's not a US citizen and he's at a school that's understandably touchy.

It's a BS law but those are some strong qualifiers. I don't think this case would be used as a precedent for MD self defense but if for some reason an MD prosecutor used a case from another state regarding a non-citizen like you insinuate in your post; then f-yeah I'd have a problem with that.

 

[Blaster229]

****I'm not a lawyer, and I hope never to have to shoot anyone, but it's always been my understanding that the 10 round cap mags are only illegal to sell in Maryland, with certain exceptions for Police and perhaps active military (?). It is not illegal to possess the magazines so I would think using them in a home defense situation would not be a problem, unless the person is banned from owning firearms, and other such issues.

?? I think you meant mags over 10 rounds? Are illegal to sell,transfer,manufacture, etc.... Yes.

The Transfer, Sale, Trade, Gift, or Manufacturing of Detachable Firearm Magazines that will accept more than 10 Round is BANNED in Maryland.

You can POSESS a Detachable Firearm Magazine in the State of Maryland that holds MORE than 10 Rounds.

*Active or Retired Law Enforcement Officers are EXEMPT.

*Do NOT loan a 11+ Capacity Magazines in the State of Maryland.

 

[Threeband]

The danger is that a homeowner could be prosecuted for a good shoot. This is Maryland, after all.
In that case, he could also face an add-on charge of using a 10+ round mag in the commission of a felony, since after all, the State or County is claiming your justifiable homicide was a wanton act of felonious murder most foul.

Whether or not it was a good shoot or a felony would be determined long after the fact, in court. Only then could it be determined whether or not the magazine was legal too.

I don't think the add-on charge would be a big concern compared to the Depraved Heart First Degree Murder charge, though.

 

[MaxVO2]

?? I think you meant mags over 10 rounds? Are illegal to sell,transfer,manufacture, etc.... Yes.

The Transfer, Sale, Trade, Gift, or Manufacturing of Detachable Firearm Magazines that will accept more than 10 Round is BANNED in Maryland.

You can POSESS a Detachable Firearm Magazine in the State of Maryland that holds MORE than 10 Rounds.

*Active or Retired Law Enforcement Officers are EXEMPT.

*Do NOT loan a 11+ Capacity Magazines in the State of Maryland.

*****Yes! OVER 10 rounds cap. Thanks. Got ahead of myself. I just hope that Maryland doesn't one day go *FULL retard* and simply ban *firearms* that can *hold* more than 10 rounds, or even ONE round..

We will all end up like pirates with those old style black powder pistols, and wearing eye patches!

 

[lowoncash]

Interesting. Thanks for posting! I was looking at a DC conceal carry permit and interesting enough DC has a ban on possession of any magazine over 10 rounds...and you can only carry enough to reload once if I recall correctly. Which means any individual should have no more than 20 rounds total on them. As a Md resident if I had a permit and was driving through DC with a Glock 19 with a full mag I would be in violation of the law. So I looked at Maryland law and did not see anything that would prohibit a homeowner from possessing a magazine over ten rounds so my assumption is it would not be a problem...while DC has a law prohibiting possession therefore probably an issue of using a magazine over 10 rounds...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting question. Does this only apply to D.C. permit holders or anyone within the boundaries of D.C.? Changing to a 10 round mag at the border would not be an option as you would still be in possession of a larger capacity magazine.
How would this work under FOPA if only transporting?

We need a GPS for firearms. "The current magazine limit is 20. You are now approaching a 10 round limit."
Options: Avoid routes that have Democrat snowflake majorities.
ECA (estimated capacity at arrival) no limit...........

 

[atblis]

That Virginia law is dumb. Worthy of being a Maryland law really.

I see nothing to indicate that he was up to anything nefarious and wouldn't suspect it. I went to Virginia Tech and frequented that range. Many many students go out there and shoot and have a great time. ARs and AKs galore. I've seen many pumpkins meet their end at that range.

The wording of the law states "equipped with at the time of the offense" when referring to a >20 round magazine making something into an assault weapon. Simply having a 30 round mag doesn't mean shit. It needs to actually be in the gun. If they have nothing proving he had it in the rifle, they in theory have no case. The law was originally about hunting and they copied and pasted it for the assault weapon US citizen version.


I think his lawyers should work the racist against Asians angle because they keep invoking the Cho shooting.

My personal experience with the Virginia criminal justice system was an eye opener. Anything short of a trial has a very low burden of proof, and the defense can do nothing (until the actual trial). Basically, the prosecutor can make up whatever he/she wants to and the defense can do nothing to counter it.

Any semi-automatic center-fire rifle or pistol which expels single or multiple projectiles by action of an explosion of a combustible material and is equipped at the time of the offense with a magazine which will hold more than 20 rounds of ammunition or designed by the manufacturer to accommodate a silencer or equipped with a folding stock.4

 

[Schipperke]

?? I think you meant mags over 10 rounds? Are illegal to sell,transfer,manufacture, etc.... Yes.

The Transfer, Sale, Trade, Gift, or Manufacturing of Detachable Firearm Magazines that will accept more than 10 Round is BANNED in Maryland.

You can POSESS a Detachable Firearm Magazine in the State of Maryland that holds MORE than 10 Rounds.

*Active or Retired Law Enforcement Officers are EXEMPT.

*Do NOT loan a 11+ Capacity Magazines in the State of Maryland.

http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/2018RS/bills/hb/hb0730f.pdf

 

[BlueRibbon]

Also spoke to a lawyer friend. She is not a firearm law expert, but her advice is to look for precedents. If there isn't one, and prosecutor decides to add this charge, it will then force the jurisdiction system to make a decision on this matter and it will be settled for all, although the law seems to be on our side. In many cases, activists purposefully test the water and force the issue to be cleared, but in this case, obviously we can't just test it. We won't know until it happens.

Well, for me I'll keep standard magazines in my pre-2013 guns, and put a copy of purchase in the range bag just in case.

 

[Stoveman]

Interesting question. Does this only apply to D.C. permit holders or anyone within the boundaries of D.C.? Changing to a 10 round mag at the border would not be an option as you would still be in possession of a larger capacity magazine.
How would this work under FOPA if only transporting?

We need a GPS for firearms. "The current magazine limit is 20. You are now approaching a 10 round limit."
Options: Avoid routes that have Democrat snowflake majorities.
ECA (estimated capacity at arrival) no limit...........

FOPA has specific conditions for transport and having a standard cap mag in your Glock 19 isn't one of them.

During the week I often times don't know when I will need to travel to or through DC and just carry with a 10 round mag and a reload so I don't have to worry about it.

 

[Fredcohunter]

I'll admit when I go to the range I use standard capacity magazines but in my home defense weapons (which I pray to God I never have to use) I have 10 round magazines.

I have been involved in some experts witness testimony (unrelated to defense or weapons) and the "truth" is sometimes a matter of interpretation. If I ever find myself putting my fate in the hands of a jury I don't want to give the prosecutor any more than I have to.......

 

[teratos]

Huh. I keep a 40 rounder in my suppressed, 10" barreled, HD AR. Oh, and it also has a light trigger in it.....

 

[Ranchero50]

I'll admit when I go to the range I use standard capacity magazines but in my home defense weapons (which I pray to God I never have to use) I have 10 round magazines.

I have been involved in some experts witness testimony (unrelated to defense or weapons) and the "truth" is sometimes a matter of interpretation. If I ever find myself putting my fate in the hands of a jury I don't want to give the prosecutor any more than I have to.......

So if you used only 2 rounds to stop a threat, wouldn't having 30 total show restraint? Sure as heck beat needing 11 and only having 10...