This happened today, 03/27/2014....CONFISCATION

[Inigoes]

I've often wondered about this. What if you tell the leos at the door that the firearms in question are not on the premises. Do they have the right to tear your house apart looking, or will they just haul you in?

That is what warrants are for

 

[Engine4]

That is what warrants are for

What if they don't find anything after executing the warrant?

 

[BradMacc82]

Doesn't a person sign an agreement with the State when they take a PBJ plea? If they were not informed at the time that they would lose their 2A rights, they should be able to sue because the state has changed the terms of the agreement. They weren't found guilty, for heaven's sakes.

Yes, they do. They sign it before they even leave the court-room.

It specifically states the agreement and their obligations, and the sentence to be imposed if they fail to fulfill those obligations.

Another reason in the long list to get the hell out of this shyt-hole state.

*I'd like to think that all hope isn't lost for MD, but let's face it, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

 

[Inigoes]

What if they don't find anything after executing the warrant?

They leave

 

[Ragnar]

I think there was a thread saying the MSP would like to be able to do this... but they don't have a system in place to do it. But I think that may have been more focused on gun owners who have made themselves ineligible through their own actions, not changes in the law.

Beyond that, they do what they want... This isn't America after all, it's Maryland.

The way I understand it, there are two databases, one for criminal charges and dispositions and one for gun registrations. The two databases aren't able to be easily cross referenced, but they can do manual checks by searching one database and then the other. The MSP want to build/acquire IT that will allow them to link the two databases to easily check criminal dispositions against gun ownership.

 

[almiller1963]

Sounds to me like his legal processed already played out...in front of a judge or jury.

Without understanding what he did I won't pass judgment on him as quickly as you. Although I very seriously doubt they PBJed a serious crime.

 

[amoebicmagician]

it's crap like this that honestly makes me want to strangle those responsible for this crap.... so... furious

 

[nedsurf]

Who promised these folks that taking a PBJ would not have any affect on their life down the road? I've sat through many of court cases and never heard that.

Here's a novel idea...if you are INNOCENT don't take a plea deal.

Just some food for thought.

That is a good idea on its face. The reality of the judicial system is that it would grind to a halt if everyone demanded a trial. Judges know this and dole out harsher penalties for those who demand their day in court and lose. Over 99% of criminal cases end in a plea.
When I was young and got to read interesting things instead of going to the salt mine every day, I read a really interesting article penned by a legal scholar named Joel Feinberg. He juxtaposed plea bargaining in exchange for lighter sentences to torture to elicit a confession like in the spanish inquisition.
He questioned the American notion of justice when comparing it to other systems that allow for everyone to get a trial.

 

[woodstock]

 

[2SAM22]

PBJ is NOT the same as guilty.

But it is the same a Probation, and under the standard conditions of probation firearms possession is prohibited. As long as the PBJ is in effect, the person may not legally possess a firearm.

Here is the real kicker, under a standard probation, a person will have a probation officer they can petition to have the conditions changed. Under a PBJ the Office of Parole and Probation doesn't handle the case so there is no one (except maybe the judge) to petition to strike that standard condition.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

But it is the same a Probation, and under the standard conditions of probation firearms possession is prohibited. As long as the PBJ is in effect, the person may not legally possess a firearm.

Here is the real kicker, under a standard probation, a person will have a probation officer they can petition to have the conditions changed. Under a PBJ the Office of Parole and Probation doesn't handle the case so there is no one (except maybe the judge) to petition to strike that standard condition.

Note "as long as the PBJ is in effect". FSA 2013 effectively makes firearm possession prohibited lifelong in MD for specific charges.

 

[Name Taken]

Without understanding what he did I won't pass judgment on him as quickly as you. Although I very seriously doubt they PBJed a serious crime.

Define serious crimes?

I've seen 6 time CONVICTED DUI's get it. CONVICTED Domestic Abuse parties get them. People who are CONVICTED of grand theft auto get them.

I mean I guess when it comes to murder and rape probably not but short of those...PBJ's are almost ALWAYS handed out for the first few criminal contacts that the defendant has in many places in MD.

 

[Name Taken]

Just some food for thought.

When you really start looking into it not really. If those who were found guilty actually were kept in jail the amount of cases the court would see would go WAY down. But since the revolving door is good for business (judges, attorneys, etc) and the laws are wrote by many attorneys there is no incentive to jail folks.

I'd venture to say the majority of crime is done by the same few folks over and over and over again.

I would be way off...but I think if the "regulars" to the system were put away the system would thin itself out over time.

 

[BradMacc82]

But it is the same a Probation, and under the standard conditions of probation firearms possession is prohibited. As long as the PBJ is in effect, the person may not legally possess a firearm.

Here is the real kicker, under a standard probation, a person will have a probation officer they can petition to have the conditions changed. Under a PBJ the Office of Parole and Probation doesn't handle the case so there is no one (except maybe the judge) to petition to strike that standard condition.

From my (limited) understanding of MD Probation, if it's supervised probation - firearms are usually verboten.

Unsupervised probation - ok, as long as it's not specified otherwise by the court/judge.

 

[2SAM22]

From my understanding of MD Probation, if it's supervised probation - firearms are usually verboten.

Unsupervised probation - ok, as long as it's not specified otherwise by the court/judge.

It's specified in the paperwork the defendant signs but they're usually so happy to get the pbj they'll sign anything to get out of thay court house.

Check into it and you'll find I'm correct. At least that's how it was until I retired last year.

The supervised probation is more formal and conditions are spelled out more clearly, but the standard conditions are, well, standars. Obey all laws, abstain from use of illegal drugs, blah blah blah.

 

[BradMacc82]

It's specified in the paperwork the defendant signs but they're usually so happy to get the pbj they'll sign anything to get out of thay court house.

Check into it and you'll find I'm correct. At least that's how it was until I retired last year.

The supervised probation is more formal and conditions are spelled out more clearly, but the standard conditions are, well, standars. Obey all laws, abstain from use of illegal drugs, blah blah blah.

It's got me curious.

Person I know only had 2 conditions listed on their paperwork -

Obey all laws.
Forfeit some property rights to an item.

Judge actually ordered some items (firearms) be returned from 'safe-keeping' to the person after the PBJ was issued.

 

[Mark75H]

It's got me curious.

Person I know only had 2 conditions listed on their paperwork -

Obey all laws.
Forfeit some property rights to an item.

Judge actually ordered some items (firearms) be returned from 'safe-keeping' to the person after the PBJ was issued.

That's correct, but the new law overturns that and all other PBJ's.

 

[ericoak]

Seems like ex post facto to me but the Supreme Court has denied those challenges...


http://www.justice.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01117.htm

 

[Brooklyn]

Who promised these folks that taking a PBJ would not have any affect on their life down the road? I've sat through many of court cases and never heard that.

Here's a novel idea...if you are INNOCENT don't take a plea deal.

here's another
Look up Knowing waiver

10-7

 

[tc617]

On top of the PBJ crap, what bothers me is that these purchases obviously took place before October 1, prior to FSA becoming Maryland law. There is nothing in place to prevent the MSP from allowing FFL's to release firearm on the 8th day and then holding the 77r's pending indefinitely. Then when a new law is passed that would make you a prohibited person they come knocking on your door to confiscate all of your firearms.