How to handle a police traffic stop by masaad ayoob

[MJD438]

Hmm. I've heard conflicting opinions about whether to shut the car off or not. I was pulled over a few months ago for ign'antly blowing past a Charles County trooper on a cold night, and I left the engine on so the heater would keep running. The weather might've made that an exception, but is it really significant to turn off the ignition?

In talking to my LE buddies (IANLE), turning off the engine makes them feel slightly less apprehensive since you have limited one variable from the equation (movement of the vehicle for escape/evasion or running the officer down).

 

[Jim Sr]

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[iobidder]

Turning off the engine during a routine traffic stop is not warranted. Unless directed to do so by LE, it really IMO makes no difference.

Although true, even during a routine stop, taking off and eluding may occur, but shutting off the engine is in my years never a regular occurrence unless again instructed to do so.


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[300RUM]

I always stop my engine on a stop, always have.

 

[Walter]

Why is it that our neighbors up north, who have the freedoms that we can only dream of here in Maryland, and who continue to abolish more and more anti-gun laws every year (they are pushing Constitutional Carry and the discontinuing of the gun registry this year), feel differently about the subject?

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-carry-145/164784-police-note-carry-permits-cad.html

http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-1...ising-rights-cooperating-leos-my-opinion.html

It's because they understand that there's nothing to gain from informing. You're more likely to be harassed if the LEO knows about it than not. You're also not going to advance gun rights by informing. In fact, you might be doing the exact opposite - you might be reinforcing a LEO's bad behavior. If you willingly allow him to search you, disarm you, run your gun's serial number and your permit then he'll think it's perfectly ok to do that to anyone. It's not.

For me (and from what I've gathered from other people as well), it's not a lack of respect or courtesy in not informing an officer. We're not being assholes. We just simply don't want to be bothered and it's most likely we won't be if we simply don't mention anything. I could be the most polite person a LEO will encounter all week, without ever informing him/her that I'm carrying.

 

[iobidder]

No rights are violated when volunteering this information nor is it wrong for an Officer to ask procedural questions.


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[Tom Perroni]

My $0.02

Disclaimer: This information is intended for general interest only. It is not intended to be nor should it be deemed as legal advice. Please consult with attorney.

I often see individuals who have gotten themselves into a difficult situation during a traffic stop, by doing something or saying something that they shouldn’t have. It is hard to always know what is the best thing to do when you don't have your lawyer there with you, so here is a short list of suggestions for what to do when you are pulled over by the police.

First, come to a complete stop on the safe side of the road as soon as possible.

You have the option of turning off your ignition. I think it’s a good idea.

If you have weapons notify me of such. However don’t say I HAVE A GUN! Notify me you have a CHP and you are armed. Trust me this will save time and aggravation…Why? if you do not tell me and I find/see it first you will certainly under more scrutiny. This can lead to a problem if you make a furtive movement or I feel that my safety is in jeopardy for what ever reason. P.S. In Virginia I know before I approach the vehicle if the registered owner is armed or not the info is attached to the drivers Lic.

Second, roll down your window, and rest your hands high on the steering wheel where they will be visible to the officer. Do not get out of the car unless directed to do so. If at night it is often helpful to put a dome light on.

Third, be polite and respectful at all times, even if the officer is not.

Fourth, comply with the officer’s request for license and registration. Ask permission to reach into the glove box if necessary.

Fifth, the officer may ask if you are transporting weapons or drugs in your automobile. This is a standard question, so give them a standard answer.

Sixth, if the officer is asking permission, (“Can I search your car,” “Do you mind if…”) remember that these are requests and you do not have to consent. You may respectfully decline such requests. The officer must have probable cause to search you or your car, unless you give consent. However please note I will often ask for consent even when I have PC.

Seventh, if the officer is ordering you to do something, e.g., “step out of the car,” you must comply.

There is no such thing as a routine traffic stop! And while I know that some of you on this forum feel that you do not have to notify LE about your gun…..I think that it is common courtesy to do so. When I am shown courtesy I normally return it. While in your mind you know you are a good person….I will often times not know that until after the traffic stop. My goal is for everyone to go home safely.

Bottom line be courteous. And I think you will be surprised how far that will go.

 

[swinokur]

Tom, is CCW info in VA linked to auto registration, DL or both?

 

[Tom Perroni]

When I run 10- 28 Information (Tag #) I can then run the 10-27 (DL #) of the Reg owner. It is on the DL info page.

While it does not change the way I conduct the stop. It does let me know that there is posibly somone in the vehicle who is armed.

I live by the moto: In GOD we trust all others are verified through VCIN, NCIC and NLETS.

What is VCIN, NCIC and NLETS?

VCIN: The Virginia Criminal Information Network (VCIN) functions as a service facility under the management control of the Virginia Department of State Police, providing operational support to the entire criminal justice community. The primary mission of VCIN is to provide a means of rapid communications for criminal justice agencies throughout Virginia. It is a statewide data communications network incorporating computerized links to regional and national law enforcement systems:

Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV)
National Crime Information Center (NCIC)
National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System (NLETS) International Justice & Public Safety Network


NCIC: is a computerized index of criminal justice information (i.e.- criminal record history information, fugitives, stolen properties, missing persons). It is available to Federal, state, and local law enforcement and other criminal justice agencies and is operational 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

The purpose for maintaining the NCIC system is to provide a computerized database for ready access by a criminal justice agency making an inquiry and for prompt disclosure of information in the system from other criminal justice agencies about crimes and criminals. This information assists authorized agencies in criminal justice and related law enforcement objectives, such as apprehending fugitives, locating missing persons, locating and returning stolen property, as well as in the protection of the law enforcement officers encountering the individuals described in the system.

NLETS: The National Law Enforcement Telecommunications System (NLETS), is the International Justice and Public Safety Information Sharing Network — a state-of-the-art secure information sharing system for state and local law enforcement agencies. It provides electronic messaging to allow information exchange between state, local, and federal agencies and support services to justice-related computer programs. The network is operated by Nlets, a non-profit corporation owned and operation by the states and funded solely by fees for service.

 

[swinokur]

OK, I have a non resident CHP. Is that information available to you before I give you my permit? If not, is the info available after you run my DL from MD?

 

[Tom Perroni]

OK, I have a non resident CHP. Is that information available to you before I give you my permit? If not, is the info available after you run my DL from MD?

Your Non-Resident permit was issued by the Virginia State Police as such it is listed in VCIN.

When your Tag # if you are the registerd owner of the vehicle beeing checked or DL# or Name and DOB is run in Virgina it will show up.

 

[swinokur]

gotcha. thanks.

 

[iobidder]

Your Non-Resident permit was issued by the Virginia State Police as such it is listed in VCIN.

When your Tag # if you are the registerd owner of the vehicle beeing checked or DL# or Name and DOB is run in Virgina it will show up.

Now I am not Virginia LEO, but LEO and work cross jurisdictional boundaries all the time in Virginia, so what I am saying is based in what has been told to me by VSP and other agencies such as ffx and City of Alexandria Police.

A non resident holder of a Virginia CHP such as a Marylander driving through Virginia, when pulled over, and reg is run, only owner info will show up including flags, warrants and such alas that is to say the owner is the driver and even when the driver has a status check, warrants and such, the non res chp will not show up, that is only and strictly for Virginia residents.

I've asked and was curious. Because let's say a driver is suspended in Virginia, of course Virginia DMV will note that and even in Maryland I will be able to see that so anything pertaining to say a Maryland driver in another state, I will be able to see that and CHP in Virginia for non resident isn't one of them.

Another instance is if Metro Transit Police Officer working in Virginia pulls a car over he cannot tell either, this is strictly a Virginia mandated thing for Virginia residents and LE only.

Tom - just out of curiosity, how long have you been out of LE? Just wondering because that could have been a thing of the past??

No debating, but I have heard quite the opposite on numerous occasions.


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[swinokur]

When I submitted my VA NR Permit app, I did provide a copy of my MD DL. Don't know if that proves anything however.

 

[Tom Perroni]

Now I am not Virginia LEO, but LEO and work cross jurisdictional boundaries all the time in Virginia, so what I am saying is based in what has been told to me by VSP and other agencies such as ffx and City of Alexandria Police.

A non resident holder of a Virginia CHP such as a Marylander driving through Virginia, when pulled over, and reg is run, only owner info will show up including flags, warrants and such alas that is to say the owner is the driver and even when the driver has a status check, warrants and such, the non res chp will not show up, that is only and strictly for Virginia residents.

I've asked and was curious. Because let's say a driver is suspended in Virginia, of course Virginia DMV will note that and even in Maryland I will be able to see that so anything pertaining to say a Maryland driver in another state, I will be able to see that and CHP in Virginia for non resident isn't one of them.

Another instance is if Metro Transit Police Officer working in Virginia pulls a car over he cannot tell either, this is strictly a Virginia mandated thing for Virginia residents and LE only.

Tom - just out of curiosity, how long have you been out of LE? Just wondering because that could have been a thing of the past??

No debating, but I have heard quite the opposite on numerous occasions.


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No debate brother!

I am still on the job in Virginia. I had this situation yesterday as a matter of fact. A lot of the folks in my jurisdiction are from MD and just visiting Colonial Beach Virginia.

Once I run the tag # I can run the registerd owners info. once I make the stop I confirm the driver is the registered owner. In any case I can run 10-27 info and get it once they are stopped.

This info is given to me all the time.

 

[RobMoore]

For your agency, when you say 27, is that just DL info, or does that include an NCIC check? For us, 27 and 29 are separate, and I have to request one or both.

I stopped running 27 info in D.C. because I have no interest in "no-permit" lockups. We used to be able to use discretion and cut them loose with a different driver if it came back suspended. We're expected to do the arrest now, so I just ask for the NCIC check.

 

[Tom Perroni]

For your agency, when you say 27, is that just DL info, or does that include an NCIC check? For us, 27 and 29 are separate, and I have to request one or both.

I stopped running 27 info in D.C. because I have no interest in "no-permit" lockups. We used to be able to use discretion and cut them loose with a different driver if it came back suspended. We're expected to do the arrest now, so I just ask for the NCIC check.

Our dispatchers will give me 27/29 together. They are separate checks however are folks do both without us asking. I have an outstanding command staff and support staff, as well as some of the best officers I have ever had the privilege of working with.

As one of my partners Amy likes to say…….This isn’t Baltimore honey …you’re in Colonial Beach…and we don’t play.

 

[300RUM]

You have now brought into another area I have discussed. Do you think it is important or even worthy to know that the registered owner of the vehicle has CCW.

My opinion is, it's worthless. You have know idea if this is the driver so any conclusions you may come up with could be wrong.

I open the floor

 

[Tom Perroni]

You have now brought into another area I have discussed. Do you think it is important or even worthy to know that the registered owner of the vehicle has CCW.

My opinion is, it's worthless. You have know idea if this is the driver so any conclusions you may come up with could be wrong.

I open the floor

While it does not change the way I conduct the stop. It does let me know that there is possibly someone in the vehicle who is armed.

However I live by a saying my father taught me.....

Be nice to everyone you meet...however have a plan to kill them if you must defend your life.

This is not a debate...the info comes up for me when I run information on a stop. One small note most people (99%) who have a CHP are good law abiding folks.

While this will probably rage on as long as the 9mm V .45 debate....When asked by folks how do I get out of a speeding ticket? I say...don't speed.

How do I avoid getting pulled over by the police?.... don't commit a traffic infraction while driving.

 

[iobidder]

^^amen to that.

I run 27, 28, and 29 in order all at once, covering all basis.

VSP will confirm that the system is not accurate to account for all CHP's issued, however pretty nifty of such program existing nevertheless.

For some reason I thought you were prior, my mistake on that assumption.

Politeness and demeanor will go a long way whether or not you all agree with what comes up on the computer. This debate or what if or wishful thinking debacle will not change the way Police do Policing in regards to a traffic stop.




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