Winchester 95 gr. Supreme Elite™ Bonded PDX1 + LCP experience?

[derrickonline]

It's been hell trying to get .380 ammo for a while. I finally had a guy at Bass Pro put some away when a shipment got in for me. All they got was...

380 Auto 95 gr. Supreme Elite™ Bonded PDX

I haven't taken them to the range to try it out yet. Anyone put some through an LCP yet? Results?

Thanks in advance.

UPDATE: I finally took it to the range. I only put about 20 rounds of it through my LCP since I had a limited amount and .380 ammo is hard to come by. The LCP fed it just fine. No issues at all.

 

[Maverick0313]

2A guys have some....was in yesterday and saw it.....

 

[derrickonline]

Thanks. I not sure I understand your answer are you telling me that for purchase or because someone in 2A ran some thru LCP? I have the ammo in hand I was just wondering if anyone had experiencing running through an LCP.

 

[derrickonline]

Anyone?

 

[alucard0822]

Haven't tried it in mine, but in 9mm, the PDX1 seems to perform similarly to Gold dots, but expands a bit larger and seems to expand better at lower velocities from short barrels. The 90gr gold dots and many other 380 HPs I have tested in 380 either penetrate sufficiently, or expand, but not both. Most gel tests I can find show about 6-10" of penetration from expanding ammo, and 14-16" from FMJ. The water jug tests I do routinely put 115gr+p and 124gr+p through 2-3 jugs of water with good expanding ammo, about the same as FMJ 380, and short of the 3-4 jugs of 147gr9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP, and 4-5 jugs of the heavy 40, 45 and 357mag. The gold dots, golden sabres and DPX 380 I have tried either don't expand and make it into the 3rd jug, or do and stop in the first or second. Non expanding ammo also will lose penetration with any barrier whatsoever being it is putting all it's energy into penetration and none into expansion, clothing, glass, or wood, where expanding ammo may penetrate deeper than it normally does, but still expand being the cavity clogs, and delays expansion. For this reason a FMJ 380 and a HP 9mm may penetrate similarly in bare gel, say 14", but add clothing or plywood, and the 380 probably won't get past 8-10", but the 9mm may make it to 16" because of the delayed and/or reduced expansion.

More or less for 380s, especially short barreled ones, FMJ will mostly penetrate sufficiently, unless the target is wearing heavy clothing, or is behind something, Expanding 380 will perform like a FMJ at best, or expand and fail to penetrate sufficiently at worst. Longer barrels help, and sometimes 8" of penetrration can stop a bad guy with an unobstructed shot into the chest cavity. The caliber just doesn't have enough power to expand, no big deal, just carry FMJ, it's cheaper anyway, or step up to 9mm/357/40/45, they tend to have at least twice the energy, and a few times the momentum of 380, and can both expand and penetrate sufficiently.

 

[derrickonline]

I'm laughing as I read your post. WAY over my head. Thank you however. I just wanted to know if the LCP feeds PDX1 reliably, I haven't had a chance to take it to the range to try it out yet. It was all they had in stock. I probably could have asked my question better.

Thanks again.

 

[alucard0822]

It should, mine fed Range Ts fine, and they are almost the same shape. However, you can never be certain, it is not uncommon for one gun to feed and shoot one load well, and other guns of the same exact model to jam and/or shoot that same load far off the intended point of aim. If you are planning on using any load for defense, the only way to be sure is to shoot that exact load through your gun, and shoot enough to feel confident in it's reliability, and problems with reliability are flat out unacceptable in a defensive gun.

Some experts say 500 rounds of defensive ammo, and another 500 of practice ammo without any stoppages is the minimum routine in order to carry a particular gun and load. That costs a fortune though, and most any problems will reveal themselves much quicker than that. I will not even start a test regimen until a gun has at least a few hundred rounds of FMJ through it, both to get a feel for the gun, and to allow a "break in" that some guns require. I clean it, load and fire 50 rounds of defensive ammo, checking group size and placement, function, and chronographing at least 10 of them to find out the velocity in order to compare with other known loads, and to work up a suitable "cheap" handload that feels and shoots similarly for substitute during practice, I also shoot them into water jugs both bare, and behind barriers to get an idea of the performance. Then I fire 100 rounds of FMJ ammo, doing practice drills, run 25 more defensive loads through on practice drills, 100 more FMJ loads, then end with 25 more defensive loads testing their accuracy and velocity again. Any stoppage stops the test until the source can be found, and corrected, sometimes it is a rough feed ramp, sometimes it's the ammo, then the test starts over. This way you can see how the ammo fires and functions, I may shoot one segment or another of the test over a span of weeks, and in between the test, the gun is not cleaned. It requires 200 rounds of FMJ, and 100 rounds of defensive ammo that is fired in various degrees of filth to make completely sure the gun functions, and to get practice with the new round. Even after a round and gun pass the test, I fire a box of rounds through it every couple months in order to remember where it hits relative to the sights, to replace the ammo that has been carried in the gun, to make sure that ammo carried in the gun functions after being exposed to all the environmental contaminants encountered in a carry gun, and and make sure it still functions in the gun as it ages and wears.

It is not cheap to do this, but spending $300 or more on a pistol, and $100 on ammo is kinda pointless unless you know it will do the job, and I want to be confident in the equipment I stake my life on. So far I have run this test through the 5 handguns I use for defense, my M&P 9c, GLOCK 30SF, XD(M) 40, Kahr PM9, and the LCP over the span of about 3 years, some have fone through the test a couple times as I switch to another brand of defensive ammo(has to go through it all again if the gun or ammo changes. In the case of the LCP, I intended to carry FMJ, so the test inluded 300 rounds of FMJ, although I had a few various boxes of defensive ammo to try from a Bersa 380 that failed my test, and never really shot as I liked, so I ran them through the LCP, and it ate them up just fine.

It might be a little OCD, but I am very comfortable with any gun/ammo combination that passes my test, and that is 100% reliabe in subsewuent practice with FMJ and my defensive ammo. Buying a box of expensive ammo, loading your mag, and hoping it will work when you have not fires a single round is foolish, the loudest sound in a gunfight is a click without a boom, and you should at least make a reasonable attempt to make sure that doesn't happen.

 

[derrickonline]

alucard: That was some great information. And it actually didn't go over my head this time! My guns kinda get a similar test. Pretty much I buy whatever .380 ammo I can find and take it to the range. I'm bad as I don't clean my gun after every range visit. I tend to go to the range, shoot up 200rds, go home, put it away. A few months later go to the range again, 200rds, then I clean it. I have yet to have a FTE/FTF on any of my guns. They seem to take whatever I can throw at them. I'm the type of person I do a lot of research before a purchase a gun. Each gun I purchased I did extensive research and boy did I make some good choices. Maybe others prefer different calibers but the guns haven't done me wrong yet. The 9mm is for the house, the Bersa .380 is for the wife, my LCP is for my conceal carry. And my M&P 15-22 is just for fun (still waiting on the paperwork for that one).

Just recently I started doing more research into carrying a more defensive .380 load in my LCP (since that's what I usually conceal carry when I'm outside of MD). Just so happens the only ammo in .380 Bass Pro got was the aforementioned ammo which touts itself as self-defense ammo.

I honestly don't understand all the range jargon that people talk about. All I know is firing my gun at a target and being as accurate as possible. I don't know anything about velocity etc. The way I see it, if I start throwing bullets your direction even if I miss at least you know this guys means business. Though if my assailant has a gun (bigger, better, and he has a better aim) I could be in trouble. But either way I'm not sure how many criminals want to stick around to see who has the best aim. It might be easier to just find another target who isn't strapped.

But I'm also cool with having bullets that do maximum damage. The only thing is I never know what the reports are talking about. I like your OCD method of keeping your carry weapon ready. And I absolutely plan to take my LCP to the range with this Winchester ammo for testing before I even think about carrying but you know there are situations where some ammo just sucks in certain guns period. Hence my curiosity. Great info, and thanks!