Why the hate for SERPAs?

[Jester1341]

I have recently bought a Blackhawk! SERPA level two drop leg holster. Before I bought it and after I have read a lot of reports and threads about them being everything from poor design to just plain dangerous. Even read of gov't agencies banning their use!

Through all the hate I have read, I have yet to read word for word exactly why any incident is Blackhawk's fault. I read an IDPA shooter ADed while reholstering, and a few others that never actually explained it caught on this or this holster part malfunctioned.

Mine is for a beretta 92, not only does the retension parts not even get close to the trigger, but the complaint of design(trigger finger 'unlatching' the retension feature the 'falling' on the trigger) is totally unfounded as the trigger finger fall right on the frame ABOVE the trigger as it should rest untill ready to fire.

I have looked over my holster, gotten firmiliar with fit and function, and adjusted both the straps and the retension system.

In my opinion this holster is great, not perfect, but deffinatly not trash.

Anyone else have a useful opinion? Maybe it's other models that are troublesome? I imagine most agencies are using glocks, anyone have a serpa for other brands?

John

 

[BenL]

I used a Serpa for a 1911 for IDPA and 3 gun for a few years before I switched to a 2011 (and stopped shooting IDPA) and have nothing but nice things to say about it. I thought the retention was great and the only way you're having an ND is if you had the safety off in the holster, which is a no-no for a 1911.

 

[J-Dog]

Basically, they're considered dangerous because people do it wrong.

I believe that it's because some people try to actuate the retention release button with a bent finger, rather than a straight one. Meaning that they press in with their bent finger, at the fingertip rather than a straight flat finger.

Releasing and drawing with a bent index finger means that there's a good chance that your trigger finger could end up inside the gaurd and on the trigger before you've got the weapon out and ready.

I also have a BlackHawk SERPA, and I've tried it both ways, (finger straight and bent) with an unloaded weapon of course, and yeah, if you try to push the button with a bent index finger, it can end up inside the trigger gaurd. If you use a straight finger like you should, then your trigger finger ends up on the outside of the trigger gaurd, where it should be.

Personally, I like mine. In fact, I just got holster draw certified at BRGC with it.

 

[TheEvilZX2]

I like mine for my Glock 21. Aside from practice at my house, I have only used it down at a buddy's in TN. I need to get my holster draw for BRGC

I believe it's operator error that gave it the bad Rep....

Sent from my OG EVO running CM7.2

 

[Joseph]

I have one for my G20 and am pretty happy with it. When I draw, my finger ends up on the side of the frame above the trigger guard. I don't see any problems with it.

 

[virtus]

Basically, they're considered dangerous because people do it wrong.

I believe that it's because some people try to actuate the retention release button with a bent finger, rather than a straight one. Meaning that they press in with their bent finger, at the fingertip rather than a straight flat finger.

Releasing and drawing with a bent index finger means that there's a good chance that your trigger finger could end up inside the gaurd and on the trigger before you've got the weapon out and ready.

I also have a BlackHawk SERPA, and I've tried it both ways, (finger straight and bent) with an unloaded weapon of course, and yeah, if you try to push the button with a bent index finger, it can end up inside the trigger gaurd. If you use a straight finger like you should, then your trigger finger ends up on the outside of the trigger gaurd, where it should be.
Personally, I like mine. In fact, I just got holster draw certified at BRGC with it.

Exactly. The holster sets you up to have your trigger finger where it needs to be, unless you are poking at the release with the tip of your finger. I like my SERPA.

 

[TROOPER]

Love my BlackHawk Serpa...

I'd put it down to poor training and practice.

And idiots like Tex Grebner shooting themselves while using a Serpa.

Lastly poor adjustment and fitting.
Wearing it too loose and too low.

 

[Jester1341]

Glad to see you all agree, same as a lot of other problems, lack of training and common sense

John

 

[smokey]

there's the NG thing...there's also the thing about it locking the gun in the holster if anything gets behind that retension lever.

 

[TROOPER]

I also find the problem with a lot of reviews, is that people only take the time to post a review if they have something to complain about.

Or they were enticed by some offer or reward by Amazon or NewEgg to actually post a review.

Using those 2 websites as an example, but most reviews complain about the shipping or packaging, or DOA products, or generally poor customer service.

Not often do you actually see a good review on the "product" itself.

 

[guthook]

I'll preface this by saying I do not own one.

I have heard a major beef with them is that dirt/sand can jam up the release mechanisim. I believe this has been demonstrated on a video.

ETA: Smokey is on the ball today.

 

[J-Dog]

I like mine for my Glock 21. Aside from practice at my house, I have only used it down at a buddy's in TN. I need to get my holster draw for BRGC

I believe it's operator error that gave it the bad Rep....

Sent from my OG EVO running CM7.2

The test is actually kinda fun. Safety is key, speed isn't.

As for reliability of the holster, I mainly got it as a range toy. I don't plan on rolling around in the dirt and muck with it.

 

[swinokur]

As has been mentioned, the hate is because some instructors had students who did not use the holster as designed or hopefully instructed, causing theu fingers to curl and enter the trigger guard. If you index your finger, it's a safe design IMO.

It's a training issue IMO, not a design defect. Use the holster as designed, it works fine for many shooters. Don't follow the holsters operating instructions, well......

We read what happens. No different than not following the MOA for a firearm.

I don't crawl around on the ground so the debris issue doesn't affect me. It may be a consideration for others however.

I own 3 one for each model of my pistols:

Glock 29SF
Smith 10xx series
1911

 

[BradMacc82]

Have 2 myself - 1 for HK USP .45, 1 for S&W M&P .45, been using them for coming up on 3 years now - have yet to have an 'accident' while using them. Main use is the range, and occasionally OWB carry while at home or in OC areas.

Haters gonna hate.

 

[vin]

I also have two of them, one for a Glock 19, one for a J frame. I use them at home with the paddles because they are easy to put on and take off. I have no complaints at all with mine. The ND's come down to operator error.

 

[booker]

I own one for a full size Glock. Used properly, in good conditions, they are a great holster.

The vast majority of issues with the Serpa Level II are operator error. Drawing too fast for their skills or simply being sloppy and the trigger finger goes where it shouldn't. Tex Grebner's YouTube sensation where he went from thumb-break Glock to Serpa 1911 that resulted in him shooting himself in the leg was entirely his fault.

The problem with the Serpa II mechanism really presents itself when you get into bad conditions. Operating in those conditions, mud, snow, sand, and other debris has been shown to work its way into the paddle that retains the gun. For many, an initial failure for the gun to draw as a result of this blockage would result in a stronger pull, with a wandering trigger finger, which could lead to an ND. This, as I understand it, is the primary reason it has been banned by many agencies and training facilities.

 

[platoonDaddy]

Many instructors have banned Serpra Level II holsters. Loved mine, but had to discard and purchase a Black-Ice to attend some of the handgun classes.

Have friend who was an armorer in the sand box and hates them. Sand would jam up the release and the only solution was a dremel tool.


***********

Blackhawk SERPA banned at FLETC
January 9, 2012
By Caleb

FLETC stands for Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, and in this case, the name is 100% accurate. In their own words:

The FLETC serves as an interagency law enforcement training organization for 90 Federal agencies. The FLETC also provides services to state, local, tribal, and international law enforcement agencies. The FLETC is headquartered at Glynco, Ga., near the port city of Brunswick, halfway between Savannah, Ga., and Jacksonville, Fla.

Best PR image ever.

All of this is interesting because FLETC is now recommending against the Blackhawk SERPA holster, due to multiple incidents of officers shooting themselves while using the holster. After the wildly publicized incident with Tex Grebner, the SERPA has been on the receiving end of a lot of negative attention; I even took a hard look at my support for the holster and reversed my original position.

It is heartening to see that people are starting to realize that maybe, just maybe pushing a button with your index finger under stress is probably a bad idea.

 

[smores]

I don't like SERPAs because Safariland makes better holsters, IMO.

I really like their ALS-series holsters for Glocks. I personally prefer Safariland, Blade-Tech and Comp-Tac.

I carried a Beretta 92FS for about a year using a SERPA, and it was fine but I really like the other companies' offerings better. That and over time I've decided I don't really like anything Blackhawk! makes. For a few dollars more you can have something better that's not made in China or marketed in an almost cartoonish way at times...

 

[Indiana Jones]

I love mine. Poor training leads to a ND from a draw. Plain and simple.

 

[Indiana Jones]

I don't like SERPAs because Safariland makes better holsters, IMO.

I really like their ALS-series holsters for Glocks. I personally prefer Safariland, Blade-Tech and Comp-Tac.

I carried a Beretta 92FS for about a year using a SERPA, and it was fine but I really like the other companies' offerings better. That and over time I've decided I don't really like anything Blackhawk! makes. For a few dollars more you can have something better that's not made in China or marketed in an almost cartoonish way at times...

Like the fake carbon fiber sticker haha. I have the "carbon" Serpa. What a joke. I like my regular one more.