Why is Training So Expensive

[jpo183]

Why is training so expensive?

I am preparing to get my RSO and its discounted at $80

But I was checking out other classes

FIRST Step Pistol Orientation is $110
Basic Pistol cost $70+
Home firearm Safety is $90
Basic Rifle $175
Pistol instructor / BIT is $80/135

I am all about training, I like to go out and train as much as possible but sometimes "official" training is out of whack on pricing. I understand people want to make some money but gee weez.........

 

[FrankOceanXray]

How many hours are those classes? $ / hr ..... how much are you willing to do for an hourly rate?


Time is money. Overhead. Insurance. Profit to make it sustainable, improving.

Boils down to shit ain't free.

Look at a class with a high speed firm.. like a Magpul class.. or MSGT (RET) Paul Howe or Haley or....

 

[PJDiesel]

Because they can.

I don't get it, but a lot of folks in the firearm industry seem to price things like they need to retire tomorrow or something. Generally people spending money on guns have a decent level of disposable income.

Then, when someone offers things (guns in this example) at a FAIR price, they bash them and try to make it hard for you to transfer guns in. (assumeably because they missed the opportunity to rape you)

 

[lx1x]

those prices are really not expensive vs the others out there..

they can go to couple of hundreds..

as far as the nra classes.. they (instructors) have to buy the course packets which can range from $20 plus or minus and up.. (which includes the book, test and certificates).

 

[PJDiesel]

What does "Basic Rifle" cover, still a one day course I assume?

 

[Blue Falcon]

How much do you value your life?

 

[beafly.cakes]

Interesting, out of curiosity... How much does insurance cost for a NRA certified instructor to teach a basic pistol course?

Is it safe to assume that this is seperate insurance from what a range has to have to hold the class?

Does it change with the number of students?

 

[jpo183]

those prices are really not expensive vs the others out there..

they can go to couple of hundreds..

as far as the nra classes.. they (instructors) have to buy the course packets which can range from $20 plus or minus and up.. (which includes the book, test and certificates).

I understand cost, but even with the NRA, I know they are making money on the packets of course (which is fine) There also is the processing fees too....

I do not like the hour to $$ comparison in this case because it is not 1 on 1 training, this is group.

I would expect a premium for that. But for example my Hunter Safety Course had almost 60 people in it. That course was $10 for about 5 hours. That makes it out to $120 bucks an hour FOR BASIC INFORMATION. It was nothing special just basic dont shoot the other guy standing next to you info.

Now given that is a requirement, but think about the new handgun training people will have to go through.

If the basic pistol class cost $70 and you get a class of 10 and it last 5 hours that's $140 an hour... These are basic classes that cover the ABCs. It is not a tactical shooting class.

I guess he reason why I am asking is if you want people to go to these trainings IMO they need to come down in price to make it more appealing. The time commitment to the class is quite a commitment, and then you have the pricing. I would like to see more (included for myself) people participating in training and the prices IMO again do not reflect "spreading the message"

If I had a range I would want to have someone doing this for new members just to :

1)attract new membership to the range
2)help promote safety
3)promote the gun culture and remove the gun sterotype

 

[jpo183]

How much do you value your life?

Has nothing to do with "basic" firearm courses

 

[whistlersmother]

I recently paid about less than $40 / hour for training. I was the only one in the class. $40 /hour = ~80K a year - full time. I don't think any of us would think that's a great salary in the BW corridor.

Consider the instructors travel time, use of own weapons and ammo, membership fee at range, accounting, etc. and they ain't getting full time work. I'm sure lots of instructors would like to double up or more on the class size if they could.

Paying for someone's expertise has never been cheap, especially if they're teaching small class sizes.

(And try calling a plumber for a simple sink installation or a hvac tech to replace a motor capacitor...)

 

[jpo183]

Interesting, out of curiosity... How much does insurance cost for a NRA certified instructor to teach a basic pistol course?

Is it safe to assume that this is seperate insurance from what a range has to have to hold the class?

Does it change with the number of students?

Found it, not much

http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/instructors.htm

 

[madmattmd]

I’d suggest that you look at the cost involved. If the classes you are quoting are at the IWLA #1 in Frederick, you’re pretty must looking at what it cost to put on a class. There is not much (if any) meat left on that bone.
You’re looking at the cost of the facility (it ain’t free and you aren’t going to get space at the public library for free for an NRA class) including what it cost to shut a range down for non-club members to get the benefit of using it when dues paying members cannot, the cost of the materials (not only the packet the student gets at the class but the classroom materials as well, including the cost to the Instructor for their materials/certifications) and equipment (look at the cost of a Laptop PC, digital projector and associated items, range materials; demonstration firearms, etc.), the cost of insurance (it runs about $300 for a $1M instructor policy per year) are only some of the expenses to put on a class.
If you take an NRA Instructor class you will be taught about structuring class time, fees and costs. Most instructors spend almost as much time on pre and after class paperwork and online submissions to the NRA than they do actually teaching a class.
The good thing is that you don’t have to take an NRA class. There are alternatives. It cost $10 or less for a Maryland Hunter Safety class and those classes are all volunteer run with some assistance from the DNR. You get no where near the level of firearms specific information as you would with an NRA class (or, as stated by Frank above, a Gunsite, Sig Academy, etc.), but, hey, it’s a class.
With all due respect, come back with your observations and comments after you have taken an Instructor course and taught a class or two. You may wonder how some classes can be taught for such a low cost per student.
Matt Guilfoyle
NRA Certified RSO and Instructor – Basic Pistol, Basic Rifle, Basic Shotgun, Personal Protection Inside the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home and Refuse to Be A Victim.

 

[lx1x]

I understand cost, but even with the NRA, I know they are making money on the packets of course (which is fine) There also is the processing fees too....

I do not like the hour to $$ comparison in this case because it is not 1 on 1 training, this is group.

I would expect a premium for that. But for example my Hunter Safety Course had almost 60 people in it. That course was $10 for about 5 hours. That makes it out to $120 bucks an hour FOR BASIC INFORMATION. It was nothing special just basic dont shoot the other guy standing next to you info.

Now given that is a requirement, but think about the new handgun training people will have to go through.

If the basic pistol class cost $70 and you get a class of 10 and it last 5 hours that's $140 an hour... These are basic classes that cover the ABCs. It is not a tactical shooting class.

I guess he reason why I am asking is if you want people to go to these trainings IMO they need to come down in price to make it more appealing. The time commitment to the class is quite a commitment, and then you have the pricing. I would like to see more (included for myself) people participating in training and the prices IMO again do not reflect "spreading the message"

If I had a range I would want to have someone doing this for new members just to :

1)attract new membership to the range
2)help promote safety
3)promote the gun culture and remove the gun sterotype

I can only speak for couple classes that I know and helped teach.

DNR hunter safety class. they are only allowed to charged X amount per state regulation. All of the instructors are based on "voluntary". the $10 covers for basic needs (ie. ammo, targets, safety glasses/ears). it also depends on where the class is held. For the team I work for, our overhead is minimal. We don't have to rent a space for the class. We do it in-house (Club property).. we don't need to rent a space for the class nor range. now I know some charge more due to they have to rent a conference room and a private range.

W-O-T (nra women on target): which I help out also for our club.. they also charge minimal fee. which include all the packet, lunch, gears and ammo. Most of the helper/instructors doesn't get paid either. all voluntary work.

what do I get from it?

first: heartache from my wife. "I don't get to see you anymore"
second: the smile on every ones face on their accomplishments and hopefully pass down what they learned to the next generations.

 

[ADR]

OP, if I'm not mistaken, I believe you indicated in another thread that your are a business owner. Perhaps you could share some info about what services you offer along with an idea of your price structure to demonstrate your point.

 

[MDlocal]

But for example my Hunter Safety Course had almost 60 people in it. That course was $10 for about 5 hours. That makes it out to $120 bucks an hour FOR BASIC INFORMATION. It was nothing special just basic dont shoot the other guy standing next to you info.

You're complaining about the profit an instructor made on a class you paid $10 for? Really?

 

[smdub]

Why is training so expensive?

The flip side of the coin: Those who understand everything it takes to put on training wonder why its so cheap. Put me in that camp. I think the price is totally reasonable, and even on the cheap side. I wouldn't teach it for that little $ (unless its volunteer work.)

 

[lx1x]

You're complaining about the profit an instructor made on a class you paid $10 for? Really?

Lol.

 

[jpo183]

OP, if I'm not mistaken, I believe you indicated in another thread that your are a business owner. Perhaps you could share some info about what services you offer along with an idea of your price structure to demonstrate your point.

I am, and I am looking at this from a non business perspective because I view firearm ownership as a culture not a business model. I am looking more of what lx1x spoke of, about passing a culture down to newer firearm owners.

I am not discounting anyone wanting to charge what they want to charge if this is a business model. But I know there are a lot of people not doing this as their livelihood and is why I am asking this questions.

Example. The IWLA in Frederick does training, I took my Hunters Course there and plan to do my RSO there.

The IWLA (as my point above) is a perfect example of a current institution (gun range, club, etc) with the infrastructure already in place (sunk cost) to provide to their already paying members additional services that improve the club as a whole. They also have the ability to use this as an outreach into the NEW YOUNGER generation to get them trained and understand how firearms are to be used for minimal cost.

My point is: you do not have to pay for these courses to become trained. If I have a buddy that is a NRA X Y Z, etc and I go shooting with him. you think he is going to charge me or not teach me. Of course not. That is my point. My question is based on whether training is a business model or should be more of a passage of culture. I am not talking about tactical trainings.

Again instructors can charge what they want and people can accept it or not. I am not advocating against the business practice of making money from it, I am simply asking do these cost deter more people then it attracts?

I just see that instructors and firearm owner vets have a great opportunity to spread the culture which in the end helps a whole lot more then $80 for a class...

One of my buddies is planning to open an indoor range and we have had this discussion. By offering these items at the lowest possible cost (materials) it attracts more people to your institution and in the long run will make your institution more desirable and profitable.


I am not complaining about a $10 course I was making an example saying looking at it from an hourly perspective is not necessarily proper............

 

[lx1x]

I am, and I am looking at this from a non business perspective because I view firearm ownership as a culture not a business model. I am looking more of what lx1x spoke of, about passing a culture down to newer firearm owners.

I am not discounting anyone wanting to charge what they want to charge if this is a business model. But I know there are a lot of people not doing this as their livelihood and is why I am asking this questions.

Example. The IWLA in Frederick does training, I took my Hunters Course there and plan to do my RSO there.

The IWLA (as my point above) is a perfect example of a current institution (gun range, club, etc) with the infrastructure already in place (sunk cost) to provide to their already paying members additional services that improve the club as a whole. They also have the ability to use this as an outreach into the NEW YOUNGER generation to get them trained and understand how firearms are to be used for minimal cost.

My point is: you do not have to pay for these courses to become trained. If I have a buddy that is a NRA X Y Z, etc and I go shooting with him. you think he is going to charge me or not teach me. Of course not. That is my point. My question is based on whether training is a business model or should be more of a passage of culture. I am not talking about tactical trainings.

Again instructors can charge what they want and people can accept it or not. I am not advocating against the business practice of making money from it, I am simply asking do these cost deter more people then it attracts?

I just see that instructors and firearm owner vets have a great opportunity to spread the culture which in the end helps a whole lot more then $80 for a class...

One of my buddies is planning to open an indoor range and we have had this discussion. By offering these items at the lowest possible cost (materials) it attracts more people to your institution and in the long run will make your institution more desirable and profitable.


I am not complaining about a $10 course I was making an example saying looking at it from an hourly perspective is not necessarily proper............

I know couple NRA instructors personally. NRA classes are not their primary income.

 

[MDlocal]

Example. The IWLA in Frederick does training, I took my Hunters Course there and plan to do my RSO there.

The IWLA (as my point above) is a perfect example of a current institution (gun range, club, etc) with the infrastructure already in place (sunk cost) to provide to their already paying members additional services that improve the club as a whole. They also have the ability to use this as an outreach into the NEW YOUNGER generation to get them trained and understand how firearms are to be used for minimal cost.

If you did your training at Frederick IWLA, then how do you not know that Ben uses 100% of the profit from his training courses to fund the youth group there so that the kids can learn and shoot for free?