why do people diss the wasr 10?

[l730dc]

Ok how bout this question..

Whats the cheapest type of ak that isnt likely to be "junk"
I seen maadis and wasrs for cheap.. I will def be getting one b4 oct1.. want a wasr but my thoughts are back and forth when I see threads like this.. someone point me in the right direction for a cheap reliable ak

Thanks in advanced

 

[Luigi]

Ok how bout this question..

Whats the cheapest type of ak that isnt likely to be "junk"
I seen maadis and wasrs for cheap.. I will def be getting one b4 oct1.. want a wasr but my thoughts are back and forth when I see threads like this.. someone point me in the right direction for a cheap reliable ak

Thanks in advanced

Good reviews on the M+M models, and its cheap. For some reason you can't use the MDS search to find the "+" sign, but there is a pretty long thread on them in the rifles section.

 

[smores]

Inconsistency between different subcontractors over the years mean there are many variations of this rifle. Some are decent, some are crap.

I bought an Arsenal and never looked back. :thumbsup



Si vis pacem para bellum

follow me @DiscipleofJMB

 

[patriot001]

I730dc, they're not cheap anymore. Back in 06' they could be brought for $300, now they are $800 - $1000. Like someone pointed out definitely inspect them before buying as you should do any gun.

 

[patriot001]

M+M 10s are ok as well, I saw one at gun store in Waldorf, it even had mag dimples that everyone is so crazy about. Sight radius sucks, but get a dog leg top receiver, you'll be in business.

 

[l730dc]

2 recommendations for m+m.. I googled and they seem fair for current market value
Any more comments on those or any other models that someone would recommend

 

[l730dc]

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=119938

This was the thread u were refering to correct? I frequent this forum and knew it was on here recently.. only had to go about 20 pages back to find it

 

[yellowsled]

get what you pay for..... my .02... There is a reason they are the cheapest on the market.

 

[Anotherpyr]

Arsenals are just overpriced converted Saigas - which are the real deal, new, Russian made rifles imported in a sporting configuration. Used to be able to get these for $350 - $400 pre panic.

Are you sure about that? With the exception of the new 5.45x39 Saiga based line, I was under the impression they were imported from Bulgaria and assembled in the US. http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/home.php

 

[smores]

Are you sure about that? With the exception of the new 5.45x39 Saiga based line, I was under the impression they were imported from Bulgaria and assembled in the US. http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/home.php

The SGL rifles are actually Legion (Izhevsk) rifles, the closest thing to a real AK you can get.

And to the person you responded to: they are NOT overpriced conversions. Have you looked at the cost of quality parts and labor to convert a basic Saiga? To do it right, it will actually cost more to do a conversion than to buy an Arsenal rifle.

And I don't care what anyone says, Arsenal is the only company who can build these rifles correctly AND offer them at a good price. Century has been known for taking shortcuts and using questionable methods and components in their rifles.



Si vis pacem para bellum

follow me @DiscipleofJMB

 

[smores]

The SGL rifles are actually Legion (Izhevsk) rifles, the closest thing to a real AK you can get.

And to the person you responded to: they are NOT overpriced conversions. Have you looked at the cost of quality parts and labor to convert a basic Saiga? To do it right, it will actually cost more to do a conversion than to buy an Arsenal rifle, and will not likely be totally correct. You have to deal with extra holes in a Saiga receiver which must be welded, ground/filed and refinished. Arsenals start with a "correct" receiver.

And I don't care what anyone says, Arsenal is the only company who can build these rifles correctly AND offer them at a good price. Century has been known for taking shortcuts and using questionable methods and components in their rifles. Century rifles are typically as good or better than most home builds I've seen, but Arsenal is in a class of its own.



Si vis pacem para bellum

follow me @DiscipleofJMB

Si vis pacem para bellum

follow me @DiscipleofJMB

 

[Anotherpyr]

The SGL rifles are actually Legion (Izhevsk) rifles, the closest thing to a real AK you can get.

And to the person you responded to: they are NOT overpriced conversions. Have you looked at the cost of quality parts and labor to convert a basic Saiga? To do it right, it will actually cost more to do a conversion than to buy an Arsenal rifle.

And I don't care what anyone says, Arsenal is the only company who can build these rifles correctly AND offer them at a good price. Century has been known for taking shortcuts and using questionable methods and components in their rifles.



Si vis pacem para bellum

follow me @DiscipleofJMB

I didn't realize they had a 7.62x39 in the SGL line. Thanks for the correction.

 

[yellowsled]

^^^^ This is why 2 of the 3 AK's I own are SGL's.. SGL31 in 5.45, and a SGL21 in 7.62.

My 3rd AK is a MAK90, another high quality rifle. I opted not to get a WASR due to the QC issues with assembly with parts from random rifles.

 

[aquaman]

The QC issues with WASR's are simple to fix if you have a garage and basic tools. Same with the old SAR series which I prefer because they have dimples.

ALMOST EVERY AK HAS 'QC' ISSUES. Arsenal is not some holy grail of quality, I have had a SLR 107f with canted sights and a SGL 21 with a canted RSB. If you looks through a batch of any AKs on the table at a gun show most will have some kind of issue related to barrel components.

Basically it comes down to expectations. Combloc QC standards are far below what would be acceptable in the west. Possible exceptions for Czech,EG and Pol


Not really a big deal if you are handy

 

[Kbroc2]

Rifle dynamics are better than arsenals but for a well made akm for a good price try Lewman arms they have a bunch of romy g kits they built that are nice

 

[Glock30Eric]

Rifle dynamics are better than arsenals but for a well made akm for a good price try Lewman arms they have a bunch of romy g kits they built that are nice

Yeah Rifle Dynamics are good but you have to send your AK to them to have them work on it. I asked them a month ago to see if they have one in stock. They said "no, you have to find an AK for yourself and ship it to us so we can work on it for you."

If you have Arsenal then it is already that damn good. If you found a WASR and then it might be good idea to send it to them.

SBR Draco AK is nasty and sexy. Check it out.

 

[patriot001]

^^ me like!!! ^^

 

[ericoak]

Because they are trade-off between price and build-quality. The differences in quality were huge between my WASR and SGL-20.

 

[Scott7891]

Here is the REAL scoop on the WASR.

1) THEY ARE NOT MADE BY CENTURY. They are made at the Cugir Arsenal, one of Romania's military arsenals who has been building AK's since 1963. Nicolai Ceaucescu purged his best AK smiths and inspectors in 1983 that started Romanian AK quality decline.

2) All Century does is open up the magwell to accept normal magazines, add a tapco slant brake, add a tapco pistol grip, and replace the trigger group. Early WASR's used crappy trigger groups either made in house by Century or contracted out. They then switched to tapco g2 triggers because they were way better and cheaper in the long run.

3) Pre-2008 WASR's are usually the culprits for why WASR's are considered crap. They used parts rejected by the military, poor QC, and had Century stateside make it worse.

4) Post-2008 WASR's up until about last year I believe, used parts kits from de-milled Romanian military AK's. These coupled with better QC both in Romania and Century made these excellent rifles. These are the only WASR's I would recommend. New ones have been imported but looks like they are no longer using de-milled rifles either cause they ran out of them or QC on the Romanian side has improved where they can start making new parts again.

5) The positives about this rifle is that they use hammer forged chrome lined barrels and are still built to AKM specs which has become the most popular and numerous version of the AK to exist. Therefore most spare parts and accessories coming out are built to work to the AKM standard.

6) I would rather have a WASR to any domestic-assembled AK excluding those made by competent, independent gunsmiths. That's right. WASR's to me are better than anything out of Century's contracted shops, Waffen Works, recent Interarms builds, TGI, I.O. Inc., Hesse/Vulcan/Bkackthorne, Lancaster, or any other U.S. mass-builder.

7) I have a WASR and it is excellent. Everything is built to correct specs, no canted anything, under folder mechanism is in proper working order, has never jammed on me no matter what I feed it. Despite not having dimples at least it makes up for it by having the Y stamping for where the full auto pin goes .

 

[ericoak]

Here is the REAL scoop on the WASR.

1) THEY ARE NOT MADE BY CENTURY. They are made at the Cugir Arsenal, one of Romania's military arsenals who has been building AK's since 1963.

2) All Century does is open up the magwell to accept normal magazines, add a tapco slant brake, add a tapco pistol grip, and replace the trigger group. Early WASR's used crappy trigger groups either made in house by Century or contracted out. They then switched to tapco g2 triggers because they were way better and cheaper in the long run.

3) Pre-2007 WASR's are usually the culprits for why WASR's are considered crap. They used parts rejected by the military, poor QC, and had Century stateside make it worse.

4) Post-2008 WASR's up until about last year I believe, used parts kits from de-milled Romanian military AK's. These coupled with better QC both in Romania and Century made these excellent rifles. These are the only WASR's I would recommend. New ones have been imported but looks like they are no longer using de-milled rifles either cause they ran out of them or QC on the Romanian side has improved where they can start making new parts again.

5) The positives about this rifle is that they use hammer forged chrome lined barrels and are still built to AKM specs which has become the most popular and numerous version of the AK to exist. Therefore most spare parts and accessories coming out are built to work to the AKM standard.

6) I would rather have a WASR to any domestic-assembled AK excluding those made by competent, independent gunsmiths. That's right. WASR's to me are better than anything out of Century's contracted shops, Waffen Works, recent Interarms builds, TGI, Hesse/Vulcan/Bkackthorne, Lancaster, or any other U.S. mass-builder.

7) I have a WASR and it is excellent. Everything is built to correct specs, no canted anything, under folder mechanism is in proper working order, has never jammed on me no matter what I feed it. Despite not having dimples at least it makes up for it by having the Y stamping for where the full auto pin goes .

WASR I bought 2 years ago:

Canted sights
Lots of magazine rattle because they cut the magwell too large

Problems on ones I passed on included the above and:
Bolts that stick to the rear
Scratched to hell

You can find an acceptable one, you just have to look at what you are buying first. That must be said for most Century rifles.