What's the cheapest way and place in MD to be trained for the CCW?

[miles71]

Florida requires an understanding of Florida Law over and above what is taught in the 16 hour class.

Nope, sorry but that is not correct. Fl only requires a firearms safety course that includes live fire. The Md training fulfills the requirement.

TD

 

[miles71]

FL, AZ, ME require no additional training outside of NRA Basic Pistol or Maryland W&C or HQL. If somebody is charging extra for those three states, they are ripping the student off.

Utah requires the little bit of Utah law, fingerprints and an Utah certified stamp from an Utah certified instructor and there is a valid reason for additional charge.

Exactly

 

[Defense Initiative]

To get the Florida permit, you must apply with the required documents. You don't have to pay anyone for the forms or to fill them out.

 

[Mark75H]

To get the Florida permit, you must apply with the required documents. You don't have to pay anyone for the forms or to fill them out.

In other news, water is wet.

 

[Defense Initiative]

In other news, water is wet.

Exactly, but people continue to pay for nothing.

 

[miles71]

Exactly, but people continue to pay for nothing.

And instructors keep advertising that’s misleading.

 

[BurkeM]

Florida requires an understanding of Florida Law over and above what is taught in the 16 hour class.

OK. Could you provide a legal citation supporting that? Here's what I found. (When I was down there at Eglin and SOCOM, it was a 3-4 hour class equivalent to the MD HQL) FL even considers a CMP competition, a USPSA shoot, an IDPA event or Action Shooting match to suffice.

Florida Department of Agriculture & Consumer Services

Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services

www.fdacs.gov

Approved Training Courses​

To qualify for a concealed weapon license, Florida law requires you to submit proof of competency with a firearm. A copy of a Certificate of Completion or similar document from any of the following courses or classes is acceptable:

• Any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency in another state;
• Any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
• Any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, using instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;
• Any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
• Any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified instructor or by an instructor certified by the National Rifle Association.

Training Certificate Requirements​

The copy of the training certificate/document must be clear and legible and must include:

• Your name,
• Your instructor's name,
• Your instructor's qualifications/credentials (National Rifle Association instructor, law enforcement firearms instructor, Class "K" Firearm Instructor licensed by the state of Florida, etc.) and
• Your instructor's license/certification number.

For Active Military and Veterans​

• Active-duty militarypersonnel may submit copies of any of the following documents that confirm experience with a firearm gained during service:
  • Military orders including call to active-duty letter;
  • A statement of military service that identifies you and provides your date of entry on your current active-duty period (it must be signed by, or at the direction of, the adjutant, personnel officer or commander of your unit or higher headquarters);
• Former military personnel can submit a DD Form 214 reflecting honorable discharge from military service.

Other Acceptable Forms of Training Documentation​

Documentary evidence of experience with a firearm obtained through participation in an organized shooting competition is also acceptable.

 

[huesmann]

Most here are going to disagree with this just because of 2A. I completely understand their stance. In a perfect world, people would decide for themselves how much training they need and would go get it. The government wouldn't have any control. As we all know, the Constitution is a limit on the government and not on us.

That's all fair, but do you have a problem with requiring some demonstration of minimal capability before granting people licenses to drive on public roads?

 

[Mark75H]

OK. Could you provide a legal citation supporting that? Here's what I found. (When I was down there at Eglin and SOCOM, it was a 3-4 hour class equivalent to the MD HQL) FL even considers a CMP competition, a USPSA shoot, an IDPA event or Action Shooting match to suffice.

Florida Department of Agriculture & Consumer Services

Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services

www.fdacs.gov

Approved Training Courses​

To qualify for a concealed weapon license, Florida law requires you to submit proof of competency with a firearm. A copy of a Certificate of Completion or similar document from any of the following courses or classes is acceptable:

• Any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency in another state;
• Any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;
• Any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement agency, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, using instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, the Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;
• Any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;
• Any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified instructor or by an instructor certified by the National Rifle Association.

Training Certificate Requirements​

The copy of the training certificate/document must be clear and legible and must include:

• Your name,
• Your instructor's name,
• Your instructor's qualifications/credentials (National Rifle Association instructor, law enforcement firearms instructor, Class "K" Firearm Instructor licensed by the state of Florida, etc.) and
• Your instructor's license/certification number.

For Active Military and Veterans​

• Active-duty militarypersonnel may submit copies of any of the following documents that confirm experience with a firearm gained during service:
  • Military orders including call to active-duty letter;
  • A statement of military service that identifies you and provides your date of entry on your current active-duty period (it must be signed by, or at the direction of, the adjutant, personnel officer or commander of your unit or higher headquarters);
• Former military personnel can submit a DD Form 214 reflecting honorable discharge from military service.

Other Acceptable Forms of Training Documentation​

Documentary evidence of experience with a firearm obtained through participation in an organized shooting competition is also acceptable.

Already acknowledged

 

[Mark75H]

That's all fair, but do you have a problem with requiring some demonstration of minimal capability before granting people licenses to drive on public roads?

Apples and oranges. One is a right, one is a privilege .

 

[Garet Jax]

That's all fair, but do you have a problem with requiring some demonstration of minimal capability before granting people licenses to drive on public roads?

We're dealing with two different things. Driving is a privilege, while guns are a god given right provided by the COTUS. Let's say that they are the same (for the sake of the discussion), I would always prefer folks to get properly trained before doing something that could hurt or kill others. The problem becomes who adjudicates when someone is ready and what standards should they be compared too?

We have seen that the government abuses this position by having different standards for different folks. Given the choice between having the government adjudicate this and having it wide open (freedom), I always choose the latter.

Freedom isn't free - nor is it safe. There are always idiots who will do things that hurt or kill others (not even talking criminals). Why punish the majority for the shortcomings of the minority?

 

[Mark75H]

We're dealing with two different things. Driving is a privilege, while guns are a God given right provided PROTECTED by the COTUS. Let's say that they are the same (for the sake of the discussion), I would always prefer folks to get properly trained before doing something that could hurt or kill others. The problem becomes who adjudicates when someone is ready and what standards should they be compared too?

We have seen that the government abuses this position by having different standards for different folks. Given the choice between having the government adjudicate this and having it wide open (freedom), I always choose the latter.

Freedom isn't free - nor is it safe. There are always idiots who will do things that hurt or kill others (not even talking criminals). Why punish the majority for the shortcomings of the minority?

FIFY

 

[Biggfoot44]

And instructors keep advertising that’s misleading.

You don't have to pay anyone for the forms or to fill them out.

Reality - X % of clients Want assistance with such like things . All the clients aren't like typical MDS regulars who already know most of it . For many potential clients , assistance with application(s) is a value added feature that would influence their choice of training provider .

Training providers need to be up front that professional assistance is not required , and that they could do everything themselves .

It may well be a worthwhile business practice to price the class so as to include providing a reasonable amount of assistance for clients so desirous . IF a separate fee were to be involved , it should be minimal , and appropriate .

 

[miles71]

Reality - X % of clients Want assistance with such like things . All the clients aren't like typical MDS regulars who already know most of it . For many potential clients , assistance with application(s) is a value added feature that would influence their choice of training provider .

Training providers need to be up front that professional assistance is not required , and that they could do everything themselves .

It may well be a worthwhile business practice to price the class so as to include providing a reasonable amount of assistance for clients so desirous . IF a separate fee were to be involved , it should be minimal , and appropriate .

Good points, but everyone should remember these applications are legal documents and while assistance is one thing, completing them should be done by the applicant.
TD

 

[Mark75H]

Reality - X % of clients Want assistance with such like things . All the clients aren't like typical MDS regulars who already know most of it . For many potential clients , assistance with application(s) is a value added feature that would influence their choice of training provider .

Training providers need to be up front that professional assistance is not required , and that they could do everything themselves .

It may well be a worthwhile business practice to price the class so as to include providing a reasonable amount of assistance for clients so desirous . IF a separate fee were to be involved , it should be minimal , and appropriate .

My W&C classes are priced to allow me to assist.

The point in contention is charging extra for something that is actually included or claiming that an instructor or class is better because it includes something that all classes include.

This bread is better because it was made from grain.

 

[Garet Jax]

FIFY

Thank you sir - may I have another?

 

[Biggfoot44]

Good points, but everyone should remember these applications are legal documents and while assistance is one thing, completing them should be done by the applicant.
TD

Absolutely . Instructors could be " put that info in box A , and the other info on line C " , but the applicant is the responsible party .

 

[Biggfoot44]

My W&C classes are priced to allow me to assist.

The point in contention is charging extra for something that is actually included or claiming that an instructor or class is better because it includes something that all classes include.

This bread is better because it was made from grain.

Well there you go ! Offering those services as inherently included .

But the marketplace is wide . Some Instructors could legitimately be to the effect of " We offer bargin basement pricing to be inclusive of people of all means . But at that price . no frills ."

IF there were to offer assistance as an extra option , something on the order of $10 would be reasonable , not the $50 or $75 we sometimes hear about .

 

[Mark75H]

Well there you go ! Offering those services as inherently included .

But the marketplace is wide . Some Instructors could legitimately be to the effect of " We offer bargin basement pricing to be inclusive of people of all means . But at that price . no frills ."

IF there were to offer assistance as an extra option , something on the order of $10 would be reasonable , not the $50 or $75 we sometimes hear about .

You know that meme where the 5 year old is screaming into the iPhone helping their grandma ? Pretty sure Moore just jacked the minimum wage to $15, I'll refer my next students that request assistance to you for $10.

 

[Defense Initiative]

Reality - X % of clients Want assistance with such like things . All the clients aren't like typical MDS regulars who already know most of it . For many potential clients , assistance with application(s) is a value added feature that would influence their choice of training provider .

Training providers need to be up front that professional assistance is not required , and that they could do everything themselves .

It may well be a worthwhile business practice to price the class so as to include providing a reasonable amount of assistance for clients so desirous . IF a separate fee were to be involved , it should be minimal , and appropriate .

That is why I have an e-mail and office hours. My students are not charged for anything but the training; after the class ends, I will assist them if they have questions. This should have been clear from my comment.