What makes an HBAR an HBAR?

[A1Uni]

I was told that my S&W M&P Sport was an H-BAR, but it was sold to me as regulated. I see nothing on the rifle itself that states "H-BAR". I'm not sure if it is or not.

MH

If it has a stepped or contoured barrel, e.g. gets thinner in sections, as opposed to a solid single diameter heavy barrel, it is regulated.

This does not necessarily mean a huge varmint or bull type barrel.

Check out the Colt 6721, which though an LE gun can be sold unregulated,
(for now...)

http://www.colt.com/ColtLawEnforcement/Products/ColtTacticalCarbine.aspx

AS opposed to the model 6920, regulated.

http://www.colt.com/ColtLawEnforcement/Products/ColtLawEnforcementCarbine.aspx

 

[SKIP]

My very old Hbar is also marked on the barrel.

 

[Maryland Hunter]

If it has a stepped or contoured barrel, e.g. gets thinner in sections, as opposed to a solid single diameter heavy barrel, it is regulated.

This does not necessarily mean a huge varmint or bull type barrel.

Check out the Colt 6721, which though an LE gun can be sold unregulated,
(for now...)

http://www.colt.com/ColtLawEnforcement/Products/ColtTacticalCarbine.aspx

AS opposed to the model 6920, regulated.

http://www.colt.com/ColtLawEnforcement/Products/ColtLawEnforcementCarbine.aspx

Thanks for the info. What is their rational thinking in making one regulated and one not, just because of the barrel? Mine looks like the first, non-regulated H-BAR one. Of course, up in the air until MD decides on their interpretation.

MH

 

[mac1_131]

Of course, up in the air until MD decides on their interpretation.

really only IF they change the CURRENT interpretation, with tens of thousands of precedents set already

pretty hard to change that on a whim (with no change to the legal wording) in my view

with fingers crossed too

 

[Caladain]

With my current understanding, under pre-SB281 law, you could take an HBAR lower (bought with an HBAR upper) and swap out the uppers without a problem.

Wouldn't that hold true post-SB281? You purchase an HBAR lower, or a complete HBAR rifle to be safe, and swap on a different upper, and remain legal, since the gun is the lower and is HBAR?

 

[mac1_131]

B means barrel

how can a lower that has a upper switched that doesn't have a heavy barrel be an HBAR?

the markings don't matter. The form of the firearm at the time it becomes an enforcement issue is what matters

 

[Caladain]

B means barrel

how can a lower that has a upper switched that doesn't have a heavy barrel be an HBAR?

the markings don't matter. The form of the firearm at the time it becomes an enforcement issue is what matters

I doubt that. The lower *is* the firearm. The upper is in no way tied to the lower. Provided it passes the copy-cat test with the upper on it, i can't see how it would violate SB281.

It would be sold as HBAR. Once it's in possession, you could swap the uppers for a 5.7 or 300 blackout or other upper, i think.

 

[Gbh]

Thanks for the info. What is their rational thinking in making one regulated and one not, just because of the barrel? Mine looks like the first, non-regulated H-BAR one. Of course, up in the air until MD decides on their interpretation.

MH

The HBAR Sporter has a fixed stock.

 

[A1Uni]

Thanks for the info. What is their rational thinking in making one regulated and one not, just because of the barrel? Mine looks like the first, non-regulated H-BAR one. Of course, up in the air until MD decides on their interpretation.

MH

That, sir, is the million dollar question.

As I said before, we just need to take the win on this one and not ask too many questions.

 

[Rewind]

I was told that my S&W M&P Sport was an H-BAR, but it was sold to me as regulated. I see nothing on the rifle itself that states "H-BAR". I'm not sure if it is or not.
MH

I won a S&W M&P-15 Sport HBAR (barrel only stamped 5.56) and after a bit of uncertainty and hesitation, and a lot of persuasion, they let me go C&C same day!

 

[annihilation-time]

The FFL's opinion makes an HBAR an HBAR. Every dealer is different. Their business equals their rules.

 

[fabsroman]

Ok, I did not make it all the way through this thread. That I will admit. What I did not see in what I read was any mention of "legislative intent". Courts will look at legislative intent in some circumstances. I think you can take the Colt HBAR as it stands right now and use that as your definition of what qualifies. I would also go so far as saying that a copy exactly like the current Colt HBAR when this law goes into effect would be exempted.

Just having a lower stamped with HBAR on it and then building a carbine or pistol out of it is most likely going to land you in prison. Of course, somebody might be willing to push the definition of HBAR and be the test case, but that somebody is not going to be me. In fact, I'll just order the HBAR straight from Colt to make sure I'm legal.

How I so hope SCOTUS overturns this bad law.

 

[swinokur]

What goes on the 77R is important. If it was purchased as an HBAR and you then swap it for a regular 5.56 upper it probably won't go well for you if MSP wants to get fussy. They will not find a 77R on the firearm if they look.

But it's just an uneducated guess on my part.

IANAL.

 

[Gbh]

What goes on the 77R is important. If it goes to MSP listed as an HBAR 5.56 and you swap it to a 300 BLK upper it probably won't go well for you if MSP wants to get fussy.

But it's just an uneducated guess on my part.

IANAL.

If it is a true HBAR, there would not be a 77R or any contact with MSP. Cash and Carry with a 4473 federal form.

 

[swinokur]

Well the flip side is since there is no record with MSP but you now have a regular 5.56 upper on the lower that was purchased as an HBAR. What do you think MSP will do? It is now a regulated firearm and there is no record of it. They won't be happy IMO.

 

[Gbh]

Well the flip side is since there is no record with MSP but you now have a regular 5.56 upper on the lower that was purchased as an HBAR. What do you think MSP will do? It is now a regulated firearm and there is no record of it. They won't be happy IMO.

I agree with you.

I would hesitate to turn a true cash and carry unregulated HBAR Sporter purchased after October 1 into a long-term regulated AR configuration because it would be modifying something into a banned configuration.

The whole HBAR thing is silly. In my opinion, the state has had an obsession with telscoping and folding stocks and it appears that since the Colt HBAR Sporter has a fixed stock it was exempt in the same way a mini 14 ranch rifle has been.

 

[boatbod]

Well the flip side is since there is no record with MSP but you now have a regular 5.56 upper on the lower that was purchased as an HBAR. What do you think MSP will do? It is now a regulated firearm and there is no record of it. They won't be happy IMO.

Whether they are "happy" or not is irrelevant. There's no 77R for a homemade AR finished from an 80% receiver, but that doesn't make it any less legal to possess under current law.

Right now the issue of regulated vs non-regulated only applies to purchases & transfers, which is why you can buy a C&C HBAR and swap out the upper with no issues. SB281 changes that. If you buy a C&C HBAR after 10/1 (assuming you still can) you better not be swapping the upper because you will have made an illegal assault weapon which wasn't grandfathered in.

 

[swinokur]

Well the telescoping stock thing was removed as a feature test in SB281, leaving a folding stock as part of the test.

 

[swinokur]

Whether they are "happy" or not is irrelevant. There's no 77R for a homemade AR finished from an 80% receiver, but that doesn't make it any less legal to possess under current law.

Right now the issue of regulated vs non-regulated only applies to purchases & transfers, which is why you can buy a C&C HBAR and swap out the upper with no issues. SB281 changes that. If you buy a C&C HBAR after 10/1 (assuming you still can) you better not be swapping the upper because you will have made an illegal assault weapon which wasn't grandfathered in.

I was posting about post Oct 1.

 

[Gbh]

Well the telescoping stock thing was removed as a feature test in SB281, leaving a folding stock as part of the test.

I know. I'm looking back at how and why the HBAR was first exempted years ago.
People tend to focus on the heavy barrel and I believe it was he fixed stock that gave it an exemption because the rifle could not be compacted.