WARNING! FIREARM PURCHASE WITHOUT HQL AFTER OCT. 1st VIOLATES THE LAW

[Bolts Rock]

Do you have any idea how many people transport their handguns to & from the range in the original case. I shoot at several different indoor ranges & a couple of outdoor ranges & easily see a dozen or so original handgun cases
at each location.

I use a range bag so my cases look brand new, but if I decided to take a handgun to a range in its original case & was approached & questioned, I wouldn't say anything. They can kiss my ass.

This sort of activity in my mind would border on harassment, not PC.

I transport mine in their original case if the gun was new so yes I do know. Transporting to a range is far different than walking out of the gun shop. I am playing Devil's Advocate with this making you think.

 

[Beemerguy]

Actually it shows that you have the moral courage to do things properly, even though you disagree with the underlying requirement.

Go look at the actual text of the law, and read for yourself what it says. See where they wrote-in the post Sept 30 pickup for assault long guns being ok; and see where it isn't even alluded to anywhere in the section of the law concerning handguns.

Then figure out for yourself if there really is any legitimate basis for what is in the MSP Advisory.

The legitimate basis for what is in the MSP advisory is that MSP is the agency which interprets and enforces the law.

 

[JettaRed]

The legitimate basis for what is in the MSP advisory is that MSP is the agency which interprets and enforces the law.

Clearly the MSP has the daunting task of interpreting the nonsensical tripe (love that word) referred to as SB281. No one else is writing the regulations to enforce it. And it seems they have more experience at doing that than the amateurs in Annapolis.


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[Crazy_Ivan]

I was under the impression it's illegal to BUY after October 1. Perhaps I'm just an accountant, not a lawyer, but in my world, a sales transaction has occurred once money has changed hands. When you walk out of the store with your receipt and copies of your paperwork, you own that gun. It's only in the custody of the gun store until the paperwork is approved.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but based on long standing US and international accounting practice, a sale has been completed.

Oh well, that and $1.5 gets you a cup of coffee on the Jersey Turnpike.

 

[sgt23preston]

Sgt Preston here...

As I understand it, the law was written by the legislature...

The Legislators part of the law ended last April 15th...

MSP has the job of implementing & enforcing the law after Oct 1st...

The State Police have announced to the world what they will be enforcing...

The communication from them was very clear...

Stop over thinking this & take your tin foil hats off...

 

[Hit and Run]

Sgt Preston here...

As I understand it, the law was written by the legislature...

The Legislators part of the law ended last April 15th...

MSP has the job of implementing & enforcing the law after Oct 1st...

The State Police have announced to the world what they will be enforcing...

The communication from them was very clear...

Stop over thinking this & take your tin foil hats off...

Agree.

 

[Robert]

I don't believe its a Trap. I think people are too wound up over SB281 and are getting kooky.

If I am wrong Ill admit it.

Some us are all ready there, way before SB281

 

[JettaRed]

Oh well, that and $1.5 gets you a cup of coffee on the Jersey Turnpike.

$1.50! Where?




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[Gbh]

I was under the impression it's illegal to BUY after October 1. Perhaps I'm just an accountant, not a lawyer, but in my world, a sales transaction has occurred once money has changed hands. When you walk out of the store with your receipt and copies of your paperwork, you own that gun. It's only in the custody of the gun store until the paperwork is approved.

Again, I'm not a lawyer, but based on long standing US and international accounting practice, a sale has been completed.

Oh well, that and $1.5 gets you a cup of coffee on the Jersey Turnpike.

That's the way it should be. The problem is with the interpretation of the word "receive" in the law.

In my view, once I pay for it, I own it and I have received it. It is my property in the custody of the dealer for 7 days. I can't re-receive it on day 8, it has been my property since I paid for it. Sadly, this has not been the common interpretation of the law.

 

[RRHemi]

Sgt Preston here...

As I understand it, the law was written by the legislature...

The Legislators part of the law ended last April 15th...

MSP has the job of implementing & enforcing the law after Oct 1st...

The State Police have announced to the world what they will be enforcing...

The communication from them was very clear...

Stop over thinking this & take your tin foil hats off...

No tin foil hat required.

We watched as the MSP stated they brought the live fire requirement into the regulations because they and "whoever" they talked to thought it was a good idea.

IANAL, but that sure sounds like setting policy to me. What does it mean if the MSP or whoever has their ear is setting policy?

 

[pilotguy299]

The legitimate basis for what is in the MSP advisory is that MSP is the agency which interprets and enforces the law.

As I said go read the law itself, not what someone says they will or will not do.

All allowing them to disregard what the written law does, is embolden them to disregard the law in the future.

 

[swinokur]

Unfortunately everyone seems to try to "interpret" the law instead of following what it actually says. And offering a contravening interpretation is not an interpretation at all in my book.

But that's just my .02

 

[teratos]

As I said go read the law itself, not what someone says they will or will not do.

All allowing them to disregard what the written law does, is embolden them to disregard the law in the future.

Marbury v Madison

 

[pilotguy299]

Clearly the MSP has the daunting task of interpreting the nonsensical tripe (love that word) referred to as SB281. No one else is writing the regulations to enforce it. And it seems they have more experience at doing that than the amateurs in Annapolis.


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And the MSP had the opportunity up until this past monday, to write their position in to their proposed comar changes. They did not do so. And at the hearing they said a hql would be required. Now they say otherwise.

Do as you wish, but "not enforce" does not mean legal.

 

[Brooklyn]

Marbury v Madison

Your no fun anymore ...

 

[webb297]

I am now quite certain that anybody who has read through either of these threads that went 300 posts plus on this topic should understand the risk that they are taking, if they decide to receive a handgun after 10/1 without a HQL or a positive court decision. This forum is a wonderful place as it allows us to all express our interests and understanding, and in the end everybody get to make the decisions they want to. This damn law and BS that it has put us and the rank and file state workers through in its implementation is terrible, but time to move forward. Bring on the lawsuits.

 

[Gryphon]

Perhaps if the courts issue a TRO/injunctive relief this whole thread will be moot, and those having purchased between 9/23 and 9/30 won't have to make a tough decision?

 

[bwceng11]

More Forms

If it is true that the AG's opinion trumps MSP's COMAR Codified language that was voted on by the Legislators on 9/23. You may need to refile four (4) additional forms that coincide with the HQL.

They are:
MSP 77R-1 Page one
MSP 77R-1 Page two
MSP 77R-2
MSP 77R-3

For multiple transfers:
MSP 77M
MSP 77C

And for those moving into this State and registering the regulated weapons:
MSP 77D

BTW it is anticipated the the HQL will take 30 days to recieve.

Have a nice day and that is all

 

[bnich82]

Patrick has stated MSP trumps the AG when it comes to regulations(cant remeber the exact verbage). Another thing, if the MSP release is ment to be accepted in court to fight the oncoming lawsuits, why can't it stand the same test for citizens IF anything should happen?

And please stop the California comparison as it's apples to oranges. Californias situation involved firearms that were to be BANNED. Handguns are not being banned in MD, you need a HQL. If MSP were to confiscate, I'm sure it would only be till you obtained your HQL, or they would require us to re-submit the 77r with the HQL info.

With 1000+ 77r's being sent to MSP per day, a lot of people are going to get swept up if someone did decide to do something, as every MD gun owner isn't a MDS member. Can we say class action suit with say atleast 1000 citizens if something did happen? If they allow it for a lawsuit case, I dont see how tgey could strike the document down, but IANAL

 

[teratos]

Patrick has stated MSP trumps the AG. Another thing, if the MSP release is ment to be accepted in court to fight the oncoming lawsuits, why can't it stand the same test for citizens IF anything should happen.

Really? Where?