virtues of 5.45x39?

[rtruhn]

Thinking of jumping into this caliber with the current availability of sweet-ass rifles, but I'm trying to take a pragmatic analysis first.

I have 5.56 and 300 BLK rifles in hand, with a few dozen magazines of various types. I have to weigh out the value of (a) another rifle, magazines, and a reasonable cache of ammo vs (b) applying that money to the more-expensive ammo to pile higher and deeper...

Anyone want to weigh in on the advantages - economic or ballistic - of adding this caliber? What would it give me that the others don't?

 

[thumbert]

Think comparison of 308 to 223 and you got your answer but in Russian

 

[rtruhn]

Think comparison of 308 to 223 and you got your answer but in Russian

Interesting. So it's a jump down from 223/556? I'm not sure I need something between rimfire and 223 ... and if I do, a pistol caliber might fill that role. Requires more contemplation, I see.

 

[ARMatt]

5.45 is cheaper than .223/5.56 at like .24 cents a round .23 cents if you can find the Russian 7N6 "armor peircing" rounds
If you buy the Hornady stuff is like .37 a round which is the same if not cheaper than most M855
Ballisticly 5.45 shoots like M193 so not quite as hot as M855
Having the standard issue caliber and rifle as the 2nd biggest power in the world is kind of cool too.
It's cool but I don't think it will give you much more than your ARs
It's really really cool though !

 

[jimbobborg]

5.45 in the spam cans is "armor piercing." Comparable to Green Tips. Someone has a spam can (1080 rounds) for $275 in the classifieds here now. I had an Arsenal in that caliber. Nice rifle, wish I had kept it.

 

[ohen cepel]

Gain is if you want an Ak platform in md. The bullet is a bit smaller than the 5.56 but not a lot. I would not say the 308 analogy is correct though.

I have one and like it well enough but I bought it when ammo was much cheaper and then it made more sense to me than it does now.

Nothing wrong with it but not sure there is much gain either.

 

[ARMatt]

5.45 in the spam cans is "armor piercing." Comparable to Green Tips. Someone has a spam can (1080 rounds) for $275 in the classifieds here now. I had an Arsenal in that caliber. Nice rifle, wish I had kept it.

At the chantilly show they had a few tins for 250 so it's affordable but corrosive

 

[thumbert]

Interesting. So it's a jump down from 223/556? I'm not sure I need something between rimfire and 223 ... and if I do, a pistol caliber might fill that role. Requires more contemplation, I see.

No not a jump down from 223/556, comparable to 223/556. Was Russian response to the 223/556 nato rounds. They wanted something smaller/lighter, with a high velocity and less recoil.

 

[Dan44]

By keeping an eye out one could find it cheaper, last year I picked up a tin for $180 at a Harrisburg show.

 

[rtruhn]

Gain is if you want an Ak platform in md. The bullet is a bit smaller than the 5.56 but not a lot. I would not say the 308 analogy is correct though.

I have one and like it well enough but I bought it when ammo was much cheaper and then it made more sense to me than it does now.

Nothing wrong with it but not sure there is much gain either.

This also is an interesting point. I have an M85 SBR, so an AK-type rifle in 556 that takes all of the magazines I already have. I'm considering the M90 for a traditional carbine, also 556. From that perspective, I've got in hand a great deal of what a 545 might provide.

 

[alucard0822]

Really cool caliber. The Russians saw the effective ballistics of 5.56 and designed 5.45 in response to outperform 7.62x39 and 5.56. The 7N6 mil bullets are are over an inch long and steel cored, designed to penetrate and yaw, cut through a target sideways, nicknamed the "poison bullet". Uses .220 bullets(as opposed to .224 in 5.56) and a little slower by about 200FPS most barrels have a little faster than 1:8 twist. They can be accurate(especially by AK standards). It's easier to shoot than 7.62x39, lighter recoil, flatter trajectory, available from Tula, Wolf, PPU etc for around the same cost as 7.62x39.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Consider the ballistic charistics of 5.45 as overlapping, if not totally identical. Ammo used to be dirt cheap, but still reasonable.

As mentioned the major factor is AK-ish platform vs AR platform.

Now if your question instead was " What cal to get next to meaningfully expand my capabilities beyond 5.56 and .300? ", that would be a different and never ending conversation.

 

[Vile Shadow]

Thinking of jumping into this caliber with the current availability of sweet-ass rifles, but I'm trying to take a pragmatic analysis first.

I have 5.56 and 300 BLK rifles in hand, with a few dozen magazines of various types. I have to weigh out the value of (a) another rifle, magazines, and a reasonable cache of ammo vs (b) applying that money to the more-expensive ammo to pile higher and deeper...

Anyone want to weigh in on the advantages - economic or ballistic - of adding this caliber? What would it give me that the others don't?

It's the poison bullet.

 

[Bertfish]

The AR platform in 5.45 is more dependable than the AR platform in 7.62; I've built two ARs and love them both.

Cheap ammo whether surplus or otherwise. I have a whole lot of 7N6. Not sure I'd buy it any more though since the Wolf is becoming more readily available. Thought about selling it off but meh, it'll be good almost forever in those spam cans.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

What in Sam Hill is goin' on roun here?

I never saw so much vacillation as whether to buy a gun or not. It's just not normal.

You're an American. You have the God given American right to own as many calibers as you want.

Buy the gun. Hug the gun. Shoot the gun.

 

[lazarus]

5.45 is cheaper than .223/5.56 at like .24 cents a round .23 cents if you can find the Russian 7N6 "armor peircing" rounds
If you buy the Hornady stuff is like .37 a round which is the same if not cheaper than most M855
Ballisticly 5.45 shoots like M193 so not quite as hot as M855
Having the standard issue caliber and rifle as the 2nd biggest power in the world is kind of cool too.
It's cool but I don't think it will give you much more than your ARs
It's really really cool though !

I've gotten m855 for 29 cents a round after discounts and m193 for 23 cents a round. Just have to keep an eye out for sales and combine stuff.

Cabelas $20 off a $100 order, plus a couple of percent saved using active junky, plus saving 12-15% on a cabelas gift card plus finally a sale on the ammo of choice is all it takes.

No doubt 5.45 is normally a little cheaper and I haven't seen m193/m855 in big quantities for cheap (that "using every discount you can manage" kind of trick with cabelas means only ordering like 300-400rnds at a time).

 

[lazarus]

Oh, as to virtues. It has about 80% of the muzzle energy of 5.56x45.

Even though it is 5.45x39, it is actually longer than the .224 bullets used for 5.56x "45"

So use air quotes for the x39 part.

In comparison to m855, it is .220 60 grain bullet moving about 2900fps compared to a .224 62 grain moving about 3100fps. The comparison there is a 20" barrel for both. 5.45 suffers a little more than 5.56 does with shorter barrels, but barely more.

Not that anyone probably cares, but 5.45 cannot be legally used for deer hunting in Maryland. No one loads a cartridge in 5.45 that has sufficient muzzle energy for deer (1200ft-lbs at the muzzle). Hottest I've seen loaded is about 1050ft-lbs in a soft pint and around 1150 in an FMJ. 5.56/.223 by comparison the hotest I've seen is about 1380ft-lbs in .223 SP (64gr federal powershok), which even with a 16 barrel is over the minimum (barely) and with a 20" is well over the minimum (probably about 1300ft-one as I think federal uses a 23" test barrel).

My recommendation, if you've got the spare money and the itch, to for it.

If money is a little tight, don't. I won't listen my my friend, but his recommendation is to stick with only a few calibers. In large part to cut expenses. He is like me, I can't have just a couple of boxes of ammo for a gun, even if it is one I don't plan to shoot much. I have probably $300-500 in ammo in each caliber I own and that is on the LOW end. Only exception is my 20ga where I might only have $60 in ammo (3 boxes of slugs, 3 boxes of buckshot, a box of #6 and 3 boxes of #7.5). One of the next guns I plan to buy is a lever action in .30-30. Probably a Marlin 336. I THINK I'd likely only keep a couple of boxes of hunting ammo and a few boxes to shoot it at the range once or twice a year, but I also know I am just as likely to fill a .50 cal ammo can eventually.

To feel really comfortable though I'd really prefer about $1000 in ammo in each caliber give or take a little. I don't think I need 5000rnds of 9mm once I buy a 9mm pistol, but 500-600rnds of .308, sure. Also 3000 or so rounds of .223/5.55, that'd be nice. Probably also don't need 12,000+ rounds of 22lr.

Anyway, I figure I have to budget a minimum of $300 in any new caliber I collect to add to the cost of a gun. If it is an external magazine weapon and doesn't share one with what I have, I figure I also need to budget for 6-10 magazines as well.

Partly why it'll be a long time before I go some "AK like" platform (like a Vepr or something, you know, legal in MD). I figure there is the cost of the gun, but then probably $200-1000 in ammo ($200 right away probably and then $1000 eventually when I feel like I have a good stockpile) and possibly $100-150 in magazines depending on how expensive they are.

If I get another AR, even if not .223/5.56 it can share mags at least. If .223/5.56 it can share ammo also. If it at least had a parent case of .223/5.56 then once I start reloading costs are also diminished. My AR-15 seems really gentle on brass. I can see where the ejector hits it, but I can't even feel a dent or the mark with my finger nail.

There is also the space issue. Right now I've got 2 MTM mid sized cases storing my shotgun shells and 22lr. I've got a pair of .50 cal fans storing my .308/7.62 and .223/5.56 and a pair of .30 cal fans storing IMI m193 and m855.and frankly I'd love to have twice as much .308/7.62 and .223/5.56. I'd also like a little more 12 and 20ga, which are bulky as hell.

To each his own and I am damn certain I am a filthy hipocrit, but at a minimum I am going to think long and hard before I buy any other calibers (and then I'll decide to do it anyway).

 

[bkuether]

I enjoy shooting my AK 74. But I am also careful as to the overall number of calibers I am currently into.

With it being cheap, you have a much smaller investment.

I am glad I went there. I can, eventually get an AR upper in the platform if I wish. But right now it is just my lonely AK.....

 

[BLACKTALON]

5.45x39 is my favorite caliber to shoot 10 cents cheaper then 556, mags are tanks so buy once cry once and same with the gun.

 

[MD_3%er]

I enjoy shooting my AK 74. But I am also careful as to the overall number of calibers I am currently into.

With it being cheap, you have a much smaller investment.

I am glad I went there. I can, eventually get an AR upper in the platform if I wish. But right now it is just my lonely AK.....

In this case would it have not just been cheaper to buy the upper... then to buy a new gun?