Training for CCW

[ericahls]

So just making sure that I am reading this correctly.

According to the MSP website, if you have completed your CCW training (16hrs for new, 8 hrs for renewal) you are exempt from have to train AGAIN in order to get your renewal(s) in the future.

Is that how you guys read it?





Who needs to take the training?

1. Every original application and renewal application submitted after October 1, 2013, unless exempt. If you are any one of the below you are exempted.

2. You are an active law enforcement officer with a law enforcement agency of the United States, the State or any local law enforcement agency in the State.

3. You are a retired law enforcement officer with a law enforcement agency of the United States, the State or any local law enforcement agency in the State.

4. You are an active, retired, or honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United States or the National Guard.
You are a Qualified Handgun Instructor registered with the Maryland State Police.

5. You have successfully completed a firearms training course given by a Qualified Handgun Instructor. (The on-line firearm safety course is no longer accepted).


http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Pages/CriminalInvestigationBureau/LicensingDivision/Training/WearandCarryPermit.aspx

 

[lx1x]

nope.. renewal time.. you still need training... the short (8hr) one.

 

[Straightshooter]

No. You must complete an 8 hr course prior to renewal. This course must be taken no more than 2 years prior to the renewal.

COMAR
29.03.02.12
.12 Renewal.
A. A permit may be renewed for successive periods of 3 years.
B. The permit renewal application shall be submitted in the format prescribed by the Secretary.
C. The permit renewal application shall include:
(1) The applicant’s name, address, driver’s license or photographic identification soundex number, place and date of birth, height, weight, race, sex, eye and hair color, occupation, and home and work telephone numbers;
(2) The identification number from the applicant’s prior permit;
(3) Proof of the applicant’s completion of, or exemption from, a Handgun Permit Training Course with at least 8 hours of instruction within the previous 2 years, in the manner prescribed by the Secretary on the permit renewal application;
(4) A complete set of the applicant’s fingerprints, taken and submitted in the manner prescribed by the Secretary on the application;
(5) Authorization by the applicant to the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, or any other similar agency or department of another state, to disclose to the Department of State Police information as to whether the applicant:
(a) Suffers from a mental disorder and has a history of violent behavior;
(b) Has been voluntarily admitted for more than 30 consecutive days to a mental health facility or an institution that provides treatment or services for individuals with mental disorders; or
(c) Has been involuntarily committed to a mental health facility or an institution that provides treatment or services for individuals with mental disorders; and
(6) A declaration by the applicant, under the penalty of perjury, that the applicant is not prohibited under federal or State law from possessing a handgun; and
(7) A declaration by the applicant, under the penalty of perjury, that all information in the application is true and accurate.
D. The renewal application must be accompanied by a nonrefundable payment of $50.

 

[ericahls]

"(3) Proof of the applicant’s completion of, or exemption from"

That's the confusing part. It's says OR exempt from. And the MSP site says that successful completion of the training qualifies you to be exempt.

I will reach out to the MSP on Monday to clear this up, unless someone has already done that.

 

[Straightshooter]

"(3) Proof of the applicant’s completion of, or exemption from"

That's the confusing part. It's says OR exempt from. And the MSP site says that successful completion of the training qualifies you to be exempt.

I will reach out to the MSP on Monday to clear this up, unless someone has already done that.

Not confusing at all. If you are on of the exempt classes, the training requirement does not apply to you. Unless you are an active duty, retired ore honorably discharged veteran or an LEO, you need the training. Keep in mind that the initial application process and the renewal process are listed in two separate sections of COMAR.

Nowhere in that post does it say that taking the course makes you exempt from future training. Really don't know where you are getting that idea from.

EDIT! Now I see the double talk. Just another fuvk up by the MSP. You still need the training

 

[Schipperke]

The 8hr renewal training is BS requirement. Someone in their 50's applying now who served two years in the 1970's is exempt, but someone who takes the 16hrs needs to keep getting 8 more each time? Half the training is on Maryland law, and when using deadly force for self defense is acceptable. The original 16 hours probably went in to details never even covered back in the 1970's..

 

[redeemed.man]

The 8hr renewal training is BS requirement. Someone in their 50's applying now who served two years in the 1970's is exempt, but someone who takes the 16hrs needs to keep getting 8 more each time? Half the training is on Maryland law, and when using deadly force for self defense is acceptable. The original 16 hours probably went in to details never even covered back in the 1970's..

They was NO training requirement prior to FSA2013 except for professional permits such as security guards and private investigators.

 

[Straightshooter]

The 8hr renewal training is BS requirement. Someone in their 50's applying now who served two years in the 1970's is exempt, but someone who takes the 16hrs needs to keep getting 8 more each time? Half the training is on Maryland law, and when using deadly force for self defense is acceptable. The original 16 hours probably went in to details never even covered back in the 1970's..

That's all well and good, but the OP had a question about what IS required and the apparent double talk on the MSP web page, which could lead to someone (yes, we know it's just a few special people) applying for renewal and being denied due to not having the required 8 hrs training.

I've already made a contact to try to correct this.

 

[ericahls]

That's all well and good, but the OP had a question about what IS required and the apparent double talk on the MSP web page, which could lead to someone (yes, we know it's just a few special people) applying for renewal and being denied due to not having the required 8 hrs training.

I've already made a contact to try to correct this.

I am definitely calling them on Monday to get this straightened out. The way it is currently written you are exempt from additional training if you have already gone through the training once.

On the MSP list #(5) is no more or less valid than the other (4) exempting reasons.

I am aware that this exempt list is 'MSP policy' and as we all know MSP policy is handed down from on high and can change to suit a whim at the drop of a hat. At Least that is how Sgt Knaub tells it.

 

[Straightshooter]

I am definitely calling them on Monday to get this straightened out. The way it is currently written you are exempt from additional training if you have already gone through the training once.

On the MSP list #(5) is no more or less valid than the other (4) exempting reasons.

I am aware that this exempt list is 'MSP policy' and as we all know MSP policy is handed down from on high and can change to suit a whim at the drop of a hat. At Least that is how Sgt Knaub tells it.

I do not agree that this is "MSP's exempt policy". The people who wrote all those web pages were bound to make a mistake or two with all the crap they had to sift through and try to turn into something everyone can understand. In this case, the "policy" does not overrule COMAR. The problem arises when someone reads this mistake and takes it to mean they don't need the training to renew since they had it when they got their original permit. Their renewal application would no doubt be denied for lack of training.

As I said, I've already submitted a request to correct it.

 

[ericahls]

If anyone is interested in making an official complaint about MSP licensing, here is their handy dandy form.

http://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Documents/MSP_Compliments_Or_Complaints_2014_Revised.pdf

 

[ericahls]

I do not agree that this is "MSP's exempt policy". The people who wrote all those web pages were bound to make a mistake or two with all the crap they had to sift through and try to turn into something everyone can understand. In this case, the "policy" does not overrule COMAR. The problem arises when someone reads this mistake and takes it to mean they don't need the training to renew since they had it when they got their original permit. Their renewal application would no doubt be denied for lack of training.

As I said, I've already submitted a request to correct it.

Edited: I can't find in the COMAR were they spell out who is exempt from training. The only reference of exempt persons I can find is on the MSP website where they list the (5) reasons for exemption.

 

[Straightshooter]

Where does it say in the COMAR who is exempted?

It's in the Criminal Code

PUBLIC SAFET
Y
TITLE 5.
FIREARMS
SUBTITLE 3.
HANDGUN PERMITS
Md. PUBLIC SAFETY Code Ann. § 5
-
306
(2014)
§ 5
-
306. Qualifications for permit
(a)
In general.
--
Subject to subsection (c) of this section, the Secretary shall issue a permit within a
reasonab
le time to a person who the Secretary finds:
(1)
is an adult;
(2) (i)
has not been convicted of a felony or of a misdemeanor for which a sentence of imprisonment
for more than 1 year has been imposed; or
(ii)
if convicted of a crime describe
d in item (i) of this item, has been pardoned or has been granted
relief under 18 U.S.C. § 925(c);
(3)
has not been convicted of a crime involving the possession, use, or distribution of a controlled
dangerous substance;
(4)
is not presently an alcoholic, addict, or habitual user of a controlled dangerous substance unless
the habitual use of the controlled dangerous substance is under legitimate medical direction;
(5)
except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, has successfully completed prior to application
and each renewal, a firearms training course approved by the Secretary that includes:
(i) 1.
for an initial application, a minimum of 16 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun
instructor; or
2.
for a renewal ap
plication, 8 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun instructor;
(ii)
classroom instruction on:
1.
State firearm law;
2.
home firearm safety; and
3.
handgun mechanisms and operation; and
(iii)
a firearms qual
ification component that demonstrates the applicant's proficiency and use of the
firearm; and
(6)
based on an investigation:
(i)
has not exhibited a propensity for violence or instability that may reasonably render the person's
possession of a h
andgun a danger to the person or to another; and
AGC of Baltimore, Inc.
Page 151 of 173
13/03/2014
(ii)
has good and substantial reason to wear, carry, or transport a handgun, such as a finding that the
permit is necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.
(b)
Exemptions from
training course.
--
An applicant for a permit is not required to complete a certified
firearms training course under subsection (a) of this section if the applicant:
(1)
is a law enforcement officer or a person who is retired in good standing from serv
ice with a law
enforcement agency of the United States, the State, or any local law enforcement agency in the State;
(2)
is a member, retired member, or honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United
States or the National Guard;
(3)
is a qualified handgun instructor; or
(4)
has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary.
(c)
Applicant under age of 30 years.
--
An applicant under the age of 30 y

 

[ericahls]

It's in the Criminal Code

PUBLIC SAFET
Y
TITLE 5.
FIREARMS
SUBTITLE 3.
HANDGUN PERMITS
Md. PUBLIC SAFETY Code Ann. § 5
-
306
(2014)
§ 5
-
306. Qualifications for permit
(a)
In general.
--
Subject to subsection (c) of this section, the Secretary shall issue a permit within a
reasonab
le time to a person who the Secretary finds:
(1)
is an adult;
(2) (i)
has not been convicted of a felony or of a misdemeanor for which a sentence of imprisonment
for more than 1 year has been imposed; or
(ii)
if convicted of a crime describe
d in item (i) of this item, has been pardoned or has been granted
relief under 18 U.S.C. § 925(c);
(3)
has not been convicted of a crime involving the possession, use, or distribution of a controlled
dangerous substance;
(4)
is not presently an alcoholic, addict, or habitual user of a controlled dangerous substance unless
the habitual use of the controlled dangerous substance is under legitimate medical direction;
(5)
except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, has successfully completed prior to application
and each renewal, a firearms training course approved by the Secretary that includes:
(i) 1.
for an initial application, a minimum of 16 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun
instructor; or
2.
for a renewal ap
plication, 8 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun instructor;
(ii)
classroom instruction on:
1.
State firearm law;
2.
home firearm safety; and
3.
handgun mechanisms and operation; and
(iii)
a firearms qual
ification component that demonstrates the applicant's proficiency and use of the
firearm; and
(6)
based on an investigation:
(i)
has not exhibited a propensity for violence or instability that may reasonably render the person's
possession of a h
andgun a danger to the person or to another; and
AGC of Baltimore, Inc.
Page 151 of 173
13/03/2014
(ii)
has good and substantial reason to wear, carry, or transport a handgun, such as a finding that the
permit is necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.
(b)
Exemptions from
training course.
--
An applicant for a permit is not required to complete a certified
firearms training course under subsection (a) of this section if the applicant:
(1)
is a law enforcement officer or a person who is retired in good standing from serv
ice with a law
enforcement agency of the United States, the State, or any local law enforcement agency in the State;
(2)
is a member, retired member, or honorably discharged member of the armed forces of the United
States or the National Guard;
(3)
is a qualified handgun instructor; or
(4)
has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary.
(c)
Applicant under age of 30 years.
--
An applicant under the age of 30 y

So unless I am reading it incorrectly They state that "(4)
has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary."

So once it's completed you are now an exempt person.

 

[Straightshooter]

So unless I am reading it incorrectly They state that "(4)
has completed a firearms training course approved by the Secretary."

So once it's completed you are now an exempt person.

That refers to any other course that the Secretary deems is sufficient to meet the requirements. Other than that. the approved course is 16 hrs for initial applications

 

[ericahls]

That refers to any other course that the Secretary deems is sufficient to meet the requirements. Other than that. the approved course is 16 hrs for initial applications

I agree that your first renewal or first time application for CCW requires the 16 / 8 hr course but it clearly states that once that has been satisfied you are no longer required to get training for additional renewals. So it's not a mistake on the website.

But like I said I am calling Monday, if just to hear some doublespeak, to try to clear this up.

 

[Straightshooter]

I agree that your first renewal or first time application for CCW requires the 16 / 8 hr course but it clearly states that once that has been satisfied you are no longer required to get training for additional renewals. So it's not a mistake on the website.

But like I said I am calling Monday, if just to hear some doublespeak, to try to clear this up.

Well then you would be wrong and would be denied a renewal for lack of training on your second renewal application,

 

[Straightshooter]

No mention of how many renewals previously. You need the 8hrs each time

2.
for a renewal application, 8 hours of instruction by a qualified handgun instructor;

 

[Straightshooter]

(5)
except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, has successfully completed prior to application
and each renewal, a firearms training course approved by the Secretary that includes:

 

[ericahls]

(5) except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, has successfully completed prior to application and each renewal, a firearms training course approved by the Secretary that includes:

You are forgetting the first part of that paragraph.

Except as provided in subsection B

Which has the list of exempt persons one of which being a successful completion of the training course.