Thoughts on features

[Wapato]

I recall being in the tackle shop looking through lures, and my dad leaning over and pointing out that companies don't make lures to catch fish...they make them to catch fishermen.

As I'm looking for a handgun I'm starting to feel a bit the same way. So I was wondering if you guys might share your opinions on what features are really useful and effective in a defensive handgun that's maryland legal, and which are just pizzaz to generate "hey that's cool" sales. Or at the least if some particularily stand out. I'm not so much talking about basic things like size, calibre, and weight as opposed to the things they're adding on to all sorts of handguns these days.

Examples of features I'm seeing advertized include:

-Decockers

-longer barrels (seem to range from three to six inches)

-threaded barrels

-under barrel accessory rail

- accessory rail on slide

-"Ring style" hammers

-barrel treatments/materials (cryogenic treating, Chrome-moly, melonite treatment, etc)

-various treatmnets/materials for the rest of the gun

-night sights

-grip lasers

-serrated trigger guard

-low bore axis

-full length guide rods

-checkered grips


Any other features I should be looking for?

Also one thing I'm disappointed to not see them talking about more is the trigger. Sometimes a company will mention the trigger pull, but I'd be interestied in knowing about things relating to travel, break, etc since those can be such an important part of effective shooting.

 

[jimbobborg]

Here's my take. Go to a range, rent some pistols. Pick the one you shoot best with. All of the other crap is superfluous if you can't shoot the pistol properly.

Jim

 

[Bikebreath]

I don't think fishing lures and handguns can be compared in this instance. Don't get me wrong, your Dad's wisdom sounds solid for fishing lures and I can appreciate your doubt with other applications. Maybe laser sights, but they still serve a purpose. Lures never want to appeal to LE, military and civilians like handguns. Follow jimboborg's advice.

 

[Jack Gordon]

Here's my take. Go to a range, rent some pistols. Pick the one you shoot best with. All of the other crap is superfluous if you can't shoot the pistol properly.

Jim

What Jim said, I don't care what kind of gay disco ball u have dropping off your gun, if u can't shoot the basics you need to reassess your priorities....

 

[joppaj]

I can't think of any defensive handgun that wouldn't benefit from quality night sights.

 

[Jack Gordon]

I can't think of any defensive handgun that wouldn't benefit from quality night sights.

Joppaj is right I put ns's on all my pistols. But I also believe you should be able to defend yourself with the bare minimum as well just in case those nitesights aren't there....

 

[Trumpet]

I recall being in the tackle shop looking through lures, and my dad leaning over and pointing out that companies don't make lures to catch fish...they make them to catch fishermen.

As I'm looking for a handgun I'm starting to feel a bit the same way. So I was wondering if you guys might share your opinions on what features are really useful and effective in a defensive handgun that's maryland legal, and which are just pizzaz to generate "hey that's cool" sales. Or at the least if some particularily stand out. I'm not so much talking about basic things like size, calibre, and weight as opposed to the things they're adding on to all sorts of handguns these days.

Examples of features I'm seeing advertized include:

-Decockers

-longer barrels (seem to range from three to six inches)

-threaded barrels

-under barrel accessory rail Necessary for a light

- accessory rail on slide

-"Ring style" hammers If shooting a 1911 convenient/needed for a beavertail GS
-barrel treatments/materials (cryogenic treating, Chrome-moly, melonite treatment, etc)

-various treatmnets/materials for the rest of the gun

-night sights why wouldn't you want them on a defensive gun?

-grip lasers nice but not necessary

-serrated trigger guard

-low bore axis helps for controlability

-full length guide rods

-checkered grips


Any other features I should be looking for?

Also one thing I'm disappointed to not see them talking about more is the trigger. Sometimes a company will mention the trigger pull, but I'd be interestied in knowing about things relating to travel, break, etc since those can be such an important part of effective shooting.

In the quote

 

[Jason21237]

Night sights are great. They are much easier to visualize even during the day. A lot of the other stuff is just a preference. But like the other guys said just go and try some different guns. Try any gun you can get your hands on. You will find certain shapes and sizes fit you better. You will love certain brands and hate others just based on feel. The available choices are both a blessing and a curse. Its real easy to find the perfect gun because there are so many choices but on the other hand theres a lot of choices and it can be overwhelming.

 

[NateTheShake]

Most "features" listed in advertisements are space fillers.

-Decockers A decocker IMHO is more or less an unnecessary safety device. Some pistols require them for one reason or another, usually for a contract like the Beretta M9 in which the design is required to have such a redundant device. I personally don't see a big use for them over a traditional cocked and locked safety. It is not a good or bad thing

-longer barrels (seem to range from three to six inches) Longer barrels do improve velocity to an extent. The biggest advantage is a longer sight radius. Again, not a good or bad thing depending on what the user's wants/needs are. If you're trying to use the pistol for CCW then a 6" barrel probably isn't high on your list of must haves...

-threaded barrels If you're going to use a suppressor then having a pre-threaded barrel can save some money. Assuming of course the threads are the same pitch as your adapter etc. If you're not going to be using a can this is a totally useless feature for 99% of shooters

-under barrel accessory rail Again, it depends on the user. If you want to attach some crap under your pistol (light, laser, bayonet, whatever) then having a rail is good. If you have no need for such items then you probably don't care.

- accessory rail on slide ? On top? Good if you want to put a scope/optic there for a hunting pistol, otherwise useless. Not a feature I see often

-"Ring style" hammers Match hammers? I'm confused on this one

-barrel treatments/materials (cryogenic treating, Chrome-moly, melonite treatment, etc) Most metal treatment of barrels and other parts is a good thing as it improves durability. To what extent is dependent on the type of treatment. Glock uses Tenifer on their metal and the stuff is amazing, you really have to put one through hell and back to ever see a hint of surface rust or pitting... and I mean obscene abuse. Melonite is another great treatment.

-various treatmnets/materials for the rest of the gun See above

-night sights A must have for a defensive pistol. While you might not be shooting in total darkness, night sights allow for proper sight alignment in low-light areas. Shot placement is the most important aspect of stopping a bad guy and being able to see your sights is a must.

-grip lasers Lame. Sorry, I just don't care for lasers. There are applications where they are useful (someone with poor vision that can't see sights, night vision, etc) but for most shooters using the sights is the way to go.

-serrated trigger guard Now we're getting into 1911 show stuff. Most of the modifications for 1911's like checkered this or serrated that is for show. It might add some texture for a better grip, but none that some skateboard tape couldn't do just as easily if not as handsomely.

-low bore axis This is more of an overall design feature. I prefer a low bore axis... not really sure how to explain this one further.

-full length guide rods Another 1911 thing. Some people swear they add accuracy, some people swear they don't do a thing. I fall into the latter group. Considering there are target/match grade 1911's churned out that still use a GI guide rod that will out-shoot most of the people here I can't say full-length rods seem to be worth the money.

-checkered grips See "serrated trigger guard"

As mentioned before the best pistol is the one you feel comfortable shooting and can do so effectively. Get out there and rent/borrow as many different styles as possible. You will find "the one". I have said it before, gun guys are a very generous group and most are more than happy to trade you some trigger time with their favorite toys in exchange for a sincere "thank you" and a smile.

 

[Wapato]

Huh. Didn't quite expect that.

First of all, do you guys find that handgun accuracy is wildly variable by shooter?

I.e. some people just can't shoot a Kimber and they need something from springfield.

Secondly don't a lot of handguns with the same basic form come in an array of variations of features? Sticking with Kimber, they seem to produce a vast array a small subset of base gun, mostly with different features.

Is it that you guys don't go for the features much at all? Just go for a simple piece of steel.

EDIT: Ooop, I got to talking while half way through typing this and a couple replies dropped.

So you guys really don't think much of lasers compared to night sights then?

 

[Jason21237]

I think what the others as well as myself are trying to say is to not worry so much about the add ons at least not yet. A laser isnt going to make you shoot better nor is most of the other fancy add ons. You need to find a gun that you like and then move on to accessories after you get the gun itself. If your looking for good price and reliability a 1911 probably isnt the best choice. The best thing you can do is get your choice down to a few. Then compare them ask for opinions,search here etc. You will get a very good idea of what your getting yourself into. There are quite a few guns known for being dead nuts reliable and decently accurate.

 

[goneshootin88]

-Decockers If a gun has a safety then this is more of a hammer drop feature. On guns such as my P30, P-01, and SP-01 then this is a must as I don't want to thumb the hammer to take the gun out of single action. I personally like guns with no safety and a decocker

-longer barrels (seem to range from three to six inches)

-threaded barrel Only if the gun will have a suppressor

-under barrel accessory rail A good feature for defensive guns when a light is important

- accessory rail on slide

-"Ring style" hammers

-barrel treatments/materials (cryogenic treating, Chrome-moly, melonite treatment, etc)

-various treatmnets/materials for the rest of the gun

-night sights. A must

-grip lasers

-serrated trigger guard

-low bore axis

-full length guide rods

-checkered grips


Any other features I should be looking for?

Also one thing I'm disappointed to not see them talking about more is the trigger. Sometimes a company will mention the trigger pull, but I'd be interestied in knowing about things relating to travel, break, etc since those can be such an important part of effective shooting.

Look in the quote

 

[NateTheShake]

First of all, do you guys find that handgun accuracy is wildly variable by shooter?

I.e. some people just can't shoot a Kimber and they need something from springfield.

Without a doubt yes and no. For a beginner yes there will be some pretty drastic differences in their ability to achieve decent accuracy versus someone with lots of (good) practice. Many inexperienced shooters are quick to blame the platform for poor accuracy. Most top-selling pistol platforms will be more accurate than the shooter. If there is an issue it's usually with the ergonomics of the platform, not the platform itself. For instance some people find the grip angle on the Glock to be uncomfortable while others prefer them above others.

Secondly don't a lot of handguns with the same basic form come in an array of variations of features? Sticking with Kimber, they seem to produce a vast array a small subset of base gun, mostly with different features.

You'll find lots of options for most platforms. Since you are citing Kimber who makes 1911's... well pretty much every firearm manufacturer in the country makes a 1911 and the platform has been around for a hundred years (literally). There are countless variations of the old war horse.

Other manufacturers offer various options for the user in terms of size and caliber.

Is it that you guys don't go for the features much at all? Just go for a simple piece of steel.

Not necessarily, but again it's hard to explain. If you're looking at 1911's (judging by your referencing Kimber I assume you are) you will go insane looking at all there is to offer. You could browse forums nonstop of a year and not scratch the surface of how many ways the 1911 has been assembled since its inception.

So you guys really don't think much of lasers compared to night sights then?

Nope, I sure don't. I don't see any advantages to a laser in most situations other than looking cool. There will be people who disagree with me on the laser subject. Night sights, however, are something you will find almost 100% agreement on. Any pistol kept for self defense requires night sights, period.


Now to turn the tables a little. So you are looking for a handgun... what is the purpose of the possible purchase? Are you planning to use it for home defense? Is it for hunting? Are you just intending to do target shooting? What kind of budget range are you intending to stay within? The answer to these will help us better guide you towards finding the right pistol for your purpose and budget.

 

[Kimerazor]

You need to answer a few questions...
1) What is the purpose of this firearm? Self-defense, conceal carry, IDPA Competition, plinking?

2) Is anyone else going to be shooting it? I.e. Your 125 LB wife who has small hands...

3) What caliber do you want or need?

4) Develop a must / wants list of the features you must have v. those you just want.

Listen to the Handgun World show podcast ... Episode 137.

 

[new_shooter]

Very few features offered on guns are only sales gimmickry, but what is needed and what isn't varies from person to person. For some an under barrel rail is fluff. For others it is a place to mount a light for night time home defense. For others it is a bit of weight to reduce barrel lift during recoil.

On the other hand, I've a tackle box full of lures that never attracted a fish. Maybe that's an ode to the skills of lure marketeers. Or maybe that's an indication of my fishing prowess. I suspect it's a heaping serving of both.

 

[erwos]

I'm with new_shooter on this... there are very few truly superfluous features, but which ones matter is going to depend on how the gun is being used. On a revolver for home defense that's going to be used by a not-so-awesome shooter, those laser grips might be hugely important. On a 1911 you use for 50 yard target at the range... not so much.

Similarly, triggers are going to be different depending on the gun's use. I'm a big believer in using DAO/DAK triggers for HD guns. OTOH, my range fun gun, a Beretta NEOS, is SAO (and needs a trigger job). I would go so far as to say that a smooth (but not necessarily "light") trigger is always a net positive.

Also, as to why a laser: if you're going to shoot around cover, you may very well find that you are able to see the target but not your sights. Lasers can be very useful in such a situation. They can also be useful for non-enthusiasts on home defense guns, which are going to be used at very short ranges where the difference between the laser and bullet impact aren't so huge.

 

[Kimerazor]

Episode 133 is the gun selection podcast at Handgun World Show.

 

[BenL]

First of all, do you guys find that handgun accuracy is wildly variable by shooter?

I.e. some people just can't shoot a Kimber and they need something from springfield.

Secondly don't a lot of handguns with the same basic form come in an array of variations of features? Sticking with Kimber, they seem to produce a vast array a small subset of base gun, mostly with different features.

Is it that you guys don't go for the features much at all? Just go for a simple piece of steel.

EDIT: Ooop, I got to talking while half way through typing this and a couple replies dropped.

So you guys really don't think much of lasers compared to night sights then?

There are differences in trigger pull (weight), trigger style (linear vs. pivot), trigger travel, grip angle (Glock is the big offender on this one), sight picture, etc. That's why most serious shooters pick one style they prefer and stick with it (I'm not saying that it's not possible to be good with multiple platforms, but it's much easier to be very good with one type rather than multiple types, if being very good is your goal.)

As for features, pick the ones you'll use. I tend to pick features on a gun dependent on the intended use- I own very few "for the hell of it" guns. All are either for (or could be used for) hunting or competition, with only one or two for just fooling around.

 

[Lou45]

OP, you have some super good information in this thread. A few things were not covered.

Nite sights: If extremely low lite conditions exist (dark), the muzzle flash from the first shot could possibly leave you partially flash blind for one to several seconds. That first shot does count and that's extremely important, nite sites will help to some degree. If temporary flash blindness is experienced after the first shot, you're now on partial to 100% muscle memory. This is where the "fit", or "feels right to you" comes in to play along with practice, practice, practice. Ported barrels are great for reducing felt recoil and muzzle jump, but not within the recommended parameters of night firing.

Safety or decocker: If the gun has a manual safety that needs to be disengaged before firing, it is possible that a person in a sudden negative situation, especially those that haven't been trained on a regular basis as some of us here have, such as being awaken in the middle of the night by an intruder, will have a WHOLE LOT on their mind all at once, possibly approaching the point of nueral overload. Under these conditions, the simpler, the better. A double action revolver or a semi auto with decocker only is a part of the KISS (keep it simple stupid). If the trigger needs to be pulled on the subject, especially in a hurry, it is possible the manual safety may be forgotten and left engaged when the shot needs to be taken. It would be nice to tell the perp to wait a second because you forgot to disengage your safety, but I haven't met one yet that would comply with those wishes.

Serrated trigger guard, backstrap, forestrap, and grips: Can you imagine how sweaty your hands will get on a hot, humid summer day holding an object in your hands for any extended period of time? Yea, the same thing can, and most likely occur in a negative situation. These neat little serrations, checkering, ridges, and otherwise funky bumps of any variety designed to help one maintain control of their grip on the gun is a good thing.

 

[Combloc]

-Decockers

-longer barrels (seem to range from three to six inches)

-threaded barrels

-under barrel accessory rail

- accessory rail on slide

-"Ring style" hammers

-barrel treatments/materials (cryogenic treating, Chrome-moly, melonite treatment, etc)

-various treatmnets/materials for the rest of the gun

-night sights

-grip lasers

-serrated trigger guard

-low bore axis

-full length guide rods

-checkered grips


.

Considering your entire list with Decocker listed as item "1" and checkered grips listed as item "14", the only one that has ever mattered in my experience is number 1. I thought item 12 would matter to me at one point but I have found it to be a nonissue for my purposes. Most of the other items on the list I conciously AVOID. Everyone has different priorities but I'm a pretty simple guy and my requirements are pretty simple. It has to WORK 100%. Just about everything else is gravy. I adapt to the pistol.