The new shooter (scope vs. iron sights)?

[peace]

I used to believe that starting people out on Irons is the best way to do things. After all, that was how I learned how to shoot.

BUT........ Advances in optics allow the shooter to hit targets more efficiently. It reduces the stress of not being able to hit a target initially. It encourages newbies to get into the sport. They can also focus on safe gun handling, habits and manual of arms , instead of focusing on other important things that make a good rifleman ( Breathing, trigger control and sight picture)

After they learn all this... You simply take out the optics and let them use the Irons. At this point, all the other essentials have already been learned. You can now work on skills to become a true rifleman that has mastered the art of Iron sights.

*Slow Clap* *Slow clap*

 

[Boom Boom]

Iron sights. I especially like Tech Sights or similar. Once he gets good with irons, get him a decent, inexpensive red dot like the Bushnell TRS-25.

 

[Mark75H]

I disagree sith starting with a scope to decrease frustration.

For either irons or optics, starting at close range is the only frustration reducer.

A whole generation has grown up not learning how to drive stick shift cars, even though it makes you a better driver.

Same with irons. The "optics is easier to learn" arguement is just an excuse.

Close is easier to learn, period.

 

[7A38]

I am looking forward (with great anticipation) to my son's birthday in a week or so, upon which I will be giving him a very special gift (I'll leave it up to you, the forum members, to guess what I have gotten him) !!

Anyway, I had him out to the farm the other day for a session of can plinking with the Jackson Squirrel Rifle (scoped). The length of pull was obviously too long for him to handle on this particular rifle (he's 6) so I helped to safely support it for him on the bench as he lined up on a gallon milk jug and sent his first round down range. Naturally, he was hooked and wanted to try it again (and again).

With that as background, I want to ask what you guys think of starting him out with iron sights, or if I should just cut to the chase and start him out with telescopic sights? The purist in me favors the former, but let's face it, scopes are not exactly new technology. Then again, maybe I've already spoiled him with the VX-III on top of that Jackson Squirrel Rifle - I hope not.

For that age, and considering you are his father, I say start him out on the scope. It's much more important that he hits things and actually enjoy shooting. I don't think kids have the patience to keep shooting unless they are getting results.

Also, I have no idea what type of teacher you are. So please don't take this the wrong way. But some teachers can really make the shooting experience very negative for the student. If the student and teacher are related, it makes it even more likely that the student will have a negative experience.

I once met an adult shooter who was the son of a very experienced shotgunner. When the son was younger, his dad was always telling him the right way to do things. He was also telling him what kind of shotgun to get, the right barrel length, etc. Once the son asked his dad, "Can't we just have fun?" I don't know what the answer was, but the son stopped shooting shotguns (and maybe everything). He picked it up again when he was an adult, and his dad was out of the picture.

Once your son likes shooting, he will eventually want to learn how to use irons (notch and post, apertures, whatever), red dots, etc.

To Mark75H's point, I also believe you should teach him how to drive a manual transmission car at some point!

7A38

 

[niftyvt]

I used to believe that starting people out on Irons is the best way to do things. After all, that was how I learned how to shoot.

BUT........ Advances in optics allow the shooter to hit targets more efficiently. It reduces the stress of not being able to hit a target initially. It encourages newbies to get into the sport. They can also focus on safe gun handling, habits and manual of arms , instead of focusing on other important things that make a good rifleman ( Breathing, trigger control and sight picture)

After they learn all this... You simply take out the optics and let them use the Irons. At this point, all the other essentials have already been learned. You can now work on skills to become a true rifleman that has mastered the art of Iron sights.

When I take a new shooter out I do it this way as well. 10/22 with a airsoft aimpoint knock off works great.

 

[SuperMag]

Learning to shoot with iron sights is like learning to drive using a standard transmission.

Get the basics down cold--and you can cover any other contingency (automatic transmission, peep sight, red-dot sight, scope, etc.).

 

[dist1646]

Iron sights first. Scopes etc. are for old people who can't see like they could when they were young. A scope can actually make it more difficult to learn because you can see far more movement and he will spend a lot of time trying to make each shot. He can learn to make an acceptable shot sooner with irons.

 

[huesmann]

Some of us still couldn't see when we were young!

 

[Indiana Jones]

Iron sights first. I learned to shoot in an afternoon in WV at a full auto shoot. This was before the "optic craze" as I call it. I don't mean I learned all there is to know in that day, just some fundamentals. Then I got into optics like EOTechs and red dots and they've grown on me. But hitting a target with iron sights at a decent distance gives you more of a feeling of accomplishment.

 

[Cheesehead]

Irons! You only get one chance to teach him right the first time.

 

[shaddydan]

My most accurate rifle only has irons....to this day, I shoot better with irons than a scope, at least under 200 yards.

 

[honeybadger]

Being a new shooter myself and the whole irons v optics. Came really clear to me my vision doesn't get better with age. the type of site isn't important. The basic strong base position (you wobble sitting standing and prone you sites either optic or iron can be dead on your missing) Breath control the optics move up and down with your breathing so do the optics. Trigger pull (the triggers work the same if optics or iron sites are on the gun). Get the basic down if he wants a scope fine keep him interested. Just like fishing take a kid fishing with plastics in the bay he is gonna get board and frustrated and quit. Use bait in a small pond with worms and he will be hooked for life.
As far as the "when I was younger crowd" this arguement is the same as I walked to school uphill both ways. Need to put the macho man stuff away and get back to having fun. IMHO

 

[Ganegrei]

Iron sights teach strong fundamentals but also lead to frustration, which is not a good thing for a child.

Scopes require less skill, but actually enable a new shooter to hit something.

I would say teach him both.

 

[Mark75H]

Required frustration relief for both types of shooting is:

Get closer to the target.

Nothing different about irons or optics if you are too far away.

 

[TxAggie]

Teach Him on Irons then add a scope, start at close range so he can hit the target.

100% agree. You should always start with the basics and KISS (keep it simple stupid) if he ever gets interested in the military, they'll start him on irons. Also, what if your scope gets cracked, or what happens if the bug really bites him and he moves on to sidearms or scatter guns, both are predominantly iron sights.

Finally, for home defense irons are the way to go. Personally, irons are just more fun and they teach you good fundamentals not only in sight picture but also in concentration and smooth trigger pull, and allows you to transition to other shooting disciplines more easily, such as archery.

My $0.02.

 

[Screwtop.243]

Well, the birthday is 6 short days away now and I'm revisiting the thread. Thanks for all of the input and I have to admit, there are merits to both sides of the argument. I do like the overarching idea that it is important to keep it fun. Too much discipline will spoil that, and with a young fella of 6, I think this is is a valid point. I also appreciate the idea of close range shooting in order to increase the probability of early success and minimizing frustration. All good points.

And yes, as a matter of fact, I did learn to drove on a stick shift. A 1976 ford pinto to be exact. Glad I didn't get hit from behind!!

 

[teratos]

Irons....

 

[trap]

iron sights.

 

[HokieCasey]

I would ask, what type of shooting do you tend to do? if most of your rifles are scoped you might want to take that into consideration, or if most of your rifles are iron sights go that way. kinda the "my rifle is just like dad's" mentality

The key is that your going to teach him to shoot, and you can transition from scope to irons, or irons to scope in the future depending on the route you go. and would recommend you expose him to irons as he progresses.

 

[BlueHeeler]

I used to believe that starting people out on Irons is the best way to do things. After all, that was how I learned how to shoot.

BUT........ Advances in optics allow the shooter to hit targets more efficiently. It reduces the stress of not being able to hit a target initially. It encourages newbies to get into the sport. They can also focus on safe gun handling, habits and manual of arms , instead of focusing on other important things that make a good rifleman ( Breathing, trigger control and sight picture)

After they learn all this... You simply take out the optics and let them use the Irons. At this point, all the other essentials have already been learned. You can now work on skills to become a true rifleman that has mastered the art of Iron sights.

+1

I teach a fair number of noobs and for years was dead set on irons because that is how I learned.

After some practical experimenting with noobs, it is apparent learning works better in small steps. I use a Mark II with red dot which makes everyone have a successful and enjoyable day. This sight is exceptionally effective because most of the people have played Halo and the likes. They already understand red dot sighting. They just need to focus on learning safety, grip, and trigger control which is a handful.

Iron sights on a .38 Special are a great graduation to their skill after the .22.