The electrolysis has begun!

[Chaunsey]

Electrolysis is great. It's so rewarding to dunk something cruddy in there and have it come out nice and clean. I have a big coleman cooler that's permanently stained from numerous batches of old tools and motorcycle parts. My magic sauce has always been sodium bicarb (baking soda) and trisodium phosphate (TSP). Never tried washing soda. Either way you want to keep it pretty basic (high pH). Be careful with dishwasher powder, they have been adding pretty complex organic acids and sulfonate compounds to those since they're not allowed to use phosphates anymore. I have no idea how reactive that stuff might be with bare steel or iron. You're probably fine, though - the vast majority of the chemistry going on in there is just electrons, water, and iron. The comment that you should make sure your sacrificial metal is surrounding or 'evenly exposed to' your work piece is spot on. If it isn't, you'll see it.

I've done a ton of auto metal finishing but never guns. I would never oil something, I'd hit it with some etching compound or some other primer right after I rinsed and dried. Can you blue something through a bit of oil? Or do you have to get rid of the oil with a solvent wash of some sort?

i serisouly doubt he would want to prime his rifle lol.

oil is just to stop it from rusting again. if the gun is going to stay as is at that point, nothing more is needed, if its going to be blued, then later its just a matter of using mineral spirits or something to get rid of the oil.

of course it would be ideal to take it out ofthe electrolysis, clean it, dry it, and go straight to bluing it, but if you're sending it out to blue, then thats not really an option, and im sure you would rather have to only pay the bluing guys to remove the oil, since they will degrease the whole thing before bluing anyway, rather than have to clean up some surface rust first.

Does anyone have a link for a comprehensive 'how to' for the electrolysis method on firearms?

dre

i posted this up in the other thread, it pretty much covers it.

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=80&t=62728

 

[tc617]

Sweet setup. Rebar all around? Did you cut the top off like that to accommodate the rebar?

You are looking at the top of the barrel where the bung once was installed. I use a large washer and go around the top with a black sharpie to make a pattern for cutting. I use a 3/4" wood bit to cut the holes for the 5/8" rebar first, then I cut the large opening in the top using a jig saw. The rebar is connected to a common post using individual wires, versus connecting them in series for more even current distribution. The reason that I use clamps for the rebar so every so often I can easily remove the rebar and give it a good scrubbing every few jobs - they do get real nasty. This tank is sitting on a wooden dolly so I can move it outside when in use. It is very important to have plenty of ventilation because when using an electrolysis tank because it gases oxygen and hydrogen into the atmosphere.

 

[aemik]

i serisouly doubt he would want to prime his rifle lol.

oil is just to stop it from rusting again. if the gun is going to stay as is at that point, nothing more is needed, if its going to be blued, then later its just a matter of using mineral spirits or something to get rid of the oil.

of course it would be ideal to take it out ofthe electrolysis, clean it, dry it, and go straight to bluing it, but if you're sending it out to blue, then thats not really an option, and im sure you would rather have to only pay the bluing guys to remove the oil, since they will degrease the whole thing before bluing anyway, rather than have to clean up some surface rust first.





i posted this up in the other thread, it pretty much covers it.

http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/vie...p?f=80&t=62728

Yeah, I have never refinished metal on a firearm but I figured primer would not be in the cards. Heh.

tc617 your rig is a million times better than my hazmat cooler. Very well thought out - that's a similar (but much larger) setup to some biotech gear we use for electrodialysis. Of course the biotech gear uses platinum wire as the electrode - we don't have to scrub it, but it's $400 for the two feet of wire...

 

[Warpspasm]

Actually, I'm considering buying some OXPHO-BLUE from Brownell's and cold bluing it myself.

 

[BlackBart]

Actually, I'm considering buying some OXPHO-BLUE from Brownell's and cold bluing it myself.

I used their standard blue kit years ago on an OLD model 12 .... it came out rather well, light but since the gun was 75 years old it looked authentic. When I traded it at The Tackle Box the guy behind the counter described it as original. I just let him talk.


Make sure you strip it (I think) outside.... it STUNK! (or maybe that was bluing it, I forget)

 

[Chaunsey]

personally i prefer g-96 gun blue, its excellent stuff, that israeli mauser was g96, i feel like the consistency allows more control.

 

[Warpspasm]

One of the things I liked about Oxpho-Blue is I understand it's a phosphatizing treatment, so it provides corrosion protection than other cold blue types. Sort of like parkerizing, but not rough.

 

[Warpspasm]

I pulled it out of the tub this morning and it's coming along nicely. I wiped it down and put it back in for a few more hours. I don't think it's going to need another overnighter, but I'm not sure.

 

[Darkemp]

Weird Science at work!

Next project, make one of these...

 

[Warpspasm]

Already made one of those.

 

[NakedSnowman]

Just a FYI for electronics I use Everclear to "dry" the delicate components so they don't rust. I'm certain it would work just as well with gun parts.

 

[Warpspasm]

Everclear the drink?

 

[montoya32]

Everclear the drink?

I think he meant the band. How would you use a drink to dry something, silly?

 

[NakedSnowman]

Everclear the drink?

Yes, everclear 195 proof alcohol. It is an excellent drying agent with no other chemicals to leave behind residues; which is VERY important when dealing with circuit boards, chips, etc. It is cheap, plentiful, and you can pour yourself a drink while doing it.

 

[Warpspasm]

Yes, everclear 195 proof alcohol. It is an excellent drying agent with no other chemicals to leave behind residues; which is VERY important when dealing with circuit boards, chips, etc.

Even though you can't (or shouldn't) drink it, wouldn't it be cheaper to use denatured alcohol?

 

[jimd27]

Currently using electrolysis to clean up a "fair" condition sks I got cheap from Century. Its really satisfying to put a skanked up part in and pull it out nice and clean. Havent done the outside of the barrel assembly yet. Anyone know if this will harm the chrome lined bore? Should I plug the barrel?

 

[mvee]

I used their standard blue kit years ago on an OLD model 12 .... it came out rather well, light but since the gun was 75 years old it looked authentic. When I traded it at The Tackle Box the guy behind the counter described it as original. I just let him talk.


Make sure you strip it (I think) outside.... it STUNK! (or maybe that was bluing it, I forget)

Did this model 12 have a repair to the wrist?

 

[NakedSnowman]

Even though you can't (or shouldn't) drink it, wouldn't it be cheaper to use denatured alcohol?

Depends on what you are pouring it over. You can get some bad results with acetone, methyl ethyl ketone, methyl isobutyl ketone, and denatonium. I usually have several jugs around, don't care for the risks associated with the additional chemicals used to denature, and the price difference isn't that huge. I'm sure a gun barrel would be fine with denatured alcohol; i just have so much everclear around the house it would be more of a convience thing.

Right now I have several bottles of everlear, about 8-10 mason jars of limoncello (about a years worth of parties), and 8 or so mason jars of purple Jesus (made for the first time this year). I'm sure my beverage distributor thinks I'm a raging alcoholic because it's not uncommon for me to buy several 750ml bottles in a week depending on what I'm fixing.

 

[amoebicmagician]

I'm using a combination of Cascade dish washing powder and baking soda.

What the heck is the passivation layer? I think when this is done, it's pretty much going to be bare metal. I was going to pull it out of the witch's brew then hose off the electrolytes, hit it with a heat gun to dry it, then oil it up. Not good?

you'll see, there will be a layer of black stuff on your cathode side (the piece you are de-rusting). Basically what is happening is the electricity is causing the metal in the cathode (your rifle) to give up iron oxide into the water that is then attracted to the anode, but this is done via a chemical reaction that leaves Fe3 behind, which is black. So you have two choices once you are done: clean of the black film and oil like hell so no oxygen can get to it, or hook your rifle up to the anode side so that the charge in the top layer of FE atoms will equalize. You see, the only reason the black film is forming is because the steel underneath is negatively charged due to the current. you have to neutralize that charge or else as soon as oxygen is presented to the bare metal it will react like greased lightning. There are chemical ways to equalize the charge too, but the easiest way I've found is just to hook it up to the positive terminal for ten or fifteen seconds, just until you see it start to etch, then cut the juice, clean it up, and you're good to go.

 

[Warpspasm]

I don't see any black layer forming. It's pretty much just silver.