The 80% Poly Lower movement has begun!

[Fishguy]

I saw Cali has their hb808 that will ban home made firearms without serial numbers and registering with DOJ. EP Armory posted that one on their fb page.

 

[Weber]

For? Or against?

Against.

 

[Fishguy]

Ep80 is posting g on their Facebook page that they have assurances from the ATF that any customers who bought their old 80% lowers will not get a knock on the door as long as they are legal to own a firearm. I can't get the fb page to post to MDS from my phone, so unless you have the book of face, you will need to take my word for it at the moment. They also say a written statement about this from their legal team will be forthcoming this week.

 

[Inigoes]

Ep80 is posting g on their Facebook page that they have assurances from the ATF that any customers who bought their old 80% lowers will not get a knock on the door as long as they are legal to own a firearm. I can't get the fb page to post to MDS from my phone, so unless you have the book of face, you will need to take my word for it at the moment. They also say a written statement about this from their legal team will be forthcoming this week.

http://bearingarms.com/ep-armory-polymer-lower-customers-wont-raided-atf-probably/

 

[ironpony]

Were there any EP80's manufactured pre Oct. 1 ? would you need the purchase order stating that to be "legal to own" said firearm. I'm not trying to burst bubbles but I thought I heard something to that effect. Thanks for the news.

 

[Fishguy]

Were there any EP80's manufactured pre Oct. 1 ? would you need the purchase order stating that to be "legal to own" said firearm. I'm not trying to burst bubbles but I thought I heard something to that effect. Thanks for the news.

Poly 80 is the other company that couldn't gat their product out before Oct. 1. Lot's of folks have pre 10/13 ep80 products. That's not the issue in this case anyway.

In a nutshell, ATF raided ep80 a few months ago and took their inventory and previous customer list because they claim the product did not meet
the criteria to be considered only 80% compete before the consumer gets it. Ep armory has struck a deal with ATF to keep making product with changes and as part of that, ATF says they won't go looking for the older generation product from the customer list they now have.

 

[DaedalEVE]

Meh, I think you geys are wasting your time and money anyway.
The price they charge it way too much for a POLYMER lower. You can get a forged aluminum lower for what they were charging.

If you're smart you'd invest in a 3D printer. At present you can order 3D printer kits in the $400-$500 range that once complete actually outpreform other pre-assembled consumer printers in the $1500-$2000+ price range (I've looked into getting a kit myself, and have a friend who's built his own printer).
Once you have a 3D printer you can make your own polymer receivers. Or instead you could use it to create negetive molds from which you make positive wax castings which you can then use (in conjunction with greensand) to create actual cast aluminum or steel lowers (something you can do on your own or send out to have done for you).
OR yet another option is to invest that same $400-$500 to get a manual mini-mill and mill your own billet lower from scratch (aside from the threads, it's pretty easy to do).

There are so many ways to do this that the entire concept of "firearms regulation" is a joke.
It's actually more difficult to make a decent bow and usable arrows (something that used to be a common thing) than it is to make an AR-15 Lower.

 

[zegerman]

That's some pretty lousy advise there, sorry. 3D printers in the $500 ballpark print in ABS or PLA, *not* the fiberglass reinforced polymers of commercial lowers. I've yet to see an ABS printed lower that doesn't crack at the buffer tube support after a little use. Likewise, getting into backyard metal casting, even in aluminum, is a serious undertaking, and you're likely to go through a lot of materials before you get an even remotely acceptable cast. If you're melting down scrap aluminum you won't have anything like 6061T6 or 7075, you're going to have pot metal. You'll never know the quality of the cast unless you're getting it xrayed, or you've been doing it so long you have a feel for it. And whatever you do finally cast probably will not be close to spec because of uncontrolled shrinkage, so then you're into machining it anyway. The idea that you would cast steel at home is borderline insane... but suggesting you "send it out" to be done would actually be illegal. Finally, a manual benchtop mini-mill to make one out of a solid block of billet aluminum. I highly doubt anyone has done it at home without first converting to a CNC machine for an additional $1000 or more. With manual machining the magwell alone would be worth the price of an 80% lower (which are all EDM cut). Trying to get decent looking radii on the sides, bottom of the magwell, takedown lugs, etc. you would buy so much tooling it would quickly outstrip the price of a pile of finished lowers. With a CNC machine you could do the work with end mills and drills, and maybe a makeshift manual shaper for the magwell... but now that you're into $2k+ of machine and tooling you can spend a few hundred hours learning CAD and CAM software to boot.

Buying a polymer 80% lower to finish with a drill press is a pretty reasonable choice for an AR15 lower in my opinion, as is an aluminum 80% finished with a mini-mill... but really, the cheapest route is just buying a lower transferred through your FFL. Most of what finishing your own 80% gets you is the satisfaction of having made something yourself. I'm glad I finished my AR collection (commercial and home made) already because I'm not in the camp that feels comfortable doing it in Maryland post 9/30/13, but I see the argument that it would be a legal step on the way to an AR15 pistol or HBAR variant. If you're comfortable with that, buy an 80% before you go learning to be a blacksmith.

 

[Chowda69]

According to the law that was passed October 1st 2013 that 80 percent lower had to be completed prior to that date. Unless something has changed be nice to know.

Is this legal to buy in Maryland right now ?


http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=427954237

 

[Fishguy]

Most probably agree it is legal to buy. Whether it is illegal to make in Maryland once you have it is still not completely resolved to the satisfaction of some.

 

[Pinecone]

You can buy 80% lowers. They are just hunks of metal or polymer.

Finishing one is where you could get into trouble.

Fed laws says the receiver IS the firearm. MD seems to be taking the direction that a lower is a banned firearm, even if you plan on making it into a non-banned firearm (HBAR or pistol).

At this time, you may end up being the test case. Being arrested, charged, and into court. Even if you win your case, you will have to deal with the legal fees. And if you lose, you could end up in prison and will lose your right to own a fiream for the rest of your life.

I will wait for you or someone else to be that test case.

 

[RoboRay]

It's not a firearm, so it's legal to buy in MD. It may or may not be legal to finish the lower in MD.

If you want to be safe, let the Motel 6 just over the state line wonder why they are finding poly shavings in the carpet of one of their rooms.

 

[Chowda69]

Ha, thats what I figured. Thanks for the quick replies.