Son is coming home from Florida

[j_h_smith]

What can we do about the AR15 rifles he owns. He has dual residency. Of course he has my address listed on his MD Drivers License, but he also has his Ormond Beach address on his FL Motorcycle license.

Can he bring the AR15 rifles back with him or is he stuck with selling them in Florida before he comes back?

Thanks!
Jim Smith

 

[Blaster229]

Well, since he is moving back he will need to consolidate and get his motorcycle license endorsement on his Maryland license. So, the Florida license is not an issue.

Did he purchase them here and then move to Florida? Is he military? Is he here permanently now? I think these are a few questions someone better read up on the new law might need to know before an accurate answer is given.

But it may just be as easy as going to a State police barrack and registering them.

 

[Pinecone]

Unless he is active duty military or a full time college student, there is no such thing as dual residency. And I am not sure that full time student actually allows true dual residency.

But if he purchased the ARs prior to Oct 1, then he can legally bring them into MD, but must register within 90 days of establishing residency.

 

[j_h_smith]

Well, since he is moving back he will need to consolidate and get his motorcycle license endorsement on his Maryland license. So, the Florida license is not an issue.

Did he purchase them here and then move to Florida? Is he military? Is he here permanently now? I think these are a few questions someone better read up on the new law might need to know before an accurate answer is given.

But it may just be as easy as going to a State police barrack and registering them.

I used the MC license as proof of residency in Florida. He was down there for 5 years of Engineering school at Embry Riddle. He purchased all of his firearms while living in Florida. He will return as a permanent resident of Maryland until a job would come along in another state.

Jim Smith

 

[j_h_smith]

Unless he is active duty military or a full time college student, there is no such thing as dual residency. And I am not sure that full time student actually allows true dual residency.

But if he purchased the ARs prior to Oct 1, then he can legally bring them into MD, but must register within 90 days of establishing residency.

Yes he is/was a full time student at Embry Riddle. The registering of the firearms is what's confusing. Doing a search, I've read that you don't have to (register) restricted firearms and other threads indicated that you may have to.

As a follow up question, did we REGISTER (legally speaking) our firearms when we complete all of our restricted firearms paperwork in the past?


Thanks!
Jim Smith

 

[Chris]

If one had registered said firearms with the State of Maryland in the past (before Oct 1, 2013) and he never really gave up his Maryland residency (he paid taxes/fees to MD) then it is though he never left the state but took a long vacation to go to school. My sons while in the military, kept their Maryland residence status (each had deployments in others states for few years) even with driver's licenses from other states. IMHO Chris

 

[j_h_smith]

But he bought them in Florida, long before Oct 1, 2013, while attending college with a Florida motorcycle license to prove an Ormond Beach address.

Jim Smith

 

[fabsroman]

Yes he is/was a full time student at Embry Riddle. The registering of the firearms is what's confusing. Doing a search, I've read that you don't have to (register) restricted firearms and other threads indicated that you may have to.

As a follow up question, did we REGISTER (legally speaking) our firearms when we complete all of our restricted firearms paperwork in the past?


Thanks!
Jim Smith

Yes, we "registered" our regulated firearms when we completed the Form 77r upon purchase. If your son bought them in Florida, just take the position that he was a Florida resident and that he is now moving into Maryland with the intent of making this his new residence. Register the regulated firearms with MSP within 90 days and problem solved.

If you take the position that he was a Maryland resident at the time he purchased the AR, then that opens up a can of worms (e.g., buying a regulated firearm out of state).

 

[fabsroman]

If one had registered said firearms with the State of Maryland in the past (before Oct 1, 2013) and he never really gave up his Maryland residency (he paid taxes/fees to MD) then it is though he never left the state but took a long vacation to go to school. My sons while in the military, kept their Maryland residence status (each had deployments in others states for few years) even with driver's licenses from other states. IMHO Chris

The military allows you to keep your residency wherever you like. I deal with this on tax returns a lot. People make their residences Florida, Wyoming, etc. where there is no state income tax while they are stationed here in Maryland. Not really the same thing for college kids.

My wife and I intend on buying a house/townhouse/condo wherever our kids go to college, having them get their driver's license in that state immediately, and then applying for in-state tuition the following year. They will be residents of that state.

 

[Pinecone]

Exactly.

If he was legally a resident of MD, and purchased regulated firearms out of state, he is violation of Federal laws (firearms purchases must be legal both in the state of purchase and the state of residency).

If he was a legal resident in FL, then when he moves to MD, he has to register any handguns or banned long guns within 90 days.

And let's not get into him having a driver's license in two states at the same time.

 

[j_h_smith]

In Florida you can legally have a MC license and not have to give up your home state license.

Jim Smith

 

[Blaster229]

In Florida you can legally have a MC license and not have to give up your home state license.

Jim Smith

True. Because in Florida you can have a motorcycle only license whereas in most states motorcycle is just an endorsement to a car license. But Maryland will make you give it up and get your regular drivers license and M endorse that.

 

[abean4187]

If he bought them before Oct 1st all he has to do is register them within 90 days.

For the motorcycle, he is going to have to go to the MVA (DMV) and get his FL license transferred over to MD. When I moved from PA to MD I had to do this, cost me 90 bucks. (45 for car license, 45 for motorcycle). Total rip off but it is the only way to do it.

Honestly, engineering is a pretty lucrative field. He should be able to find a new job within a couple months and then move out of state again. I would wait the full 90 days until registering and I do believe you have 6 months before you have to change your address/license back to MD (But look those numbers up as I did all my moving stuff over 2 years ago.) Hopefully he can be out before the deadline and not have to worry about going through all of MD’s BS.

 

[TapRackBang]

If he was legally a resident of MD, and purchased regulated firearms out of state, he is violation of Federal laws (firearms purchases must be legal both in the state of purchase and the state of residency).

THIS!

OP, stop posting here now as your son may be in hot water if he was not actually a Florida resident when he purchased his firearms.
There is no such thing as "dual residency" for non-military. EDIT: WeiShen points out below that the ATF does consider a college student a "resident" of the state where the college if the student has a home there and it is "during the school term". So long as the firearms were purchased during a school term, he's OK. If not, he may still be in trouble.

 

[Inigoes]

Unless he is active duty military or a full time college student, there is no such thing as dual residency. And I am not sure that full time student actually allows true dual residency.

But if he purchased the ARs prior to Oct 1, then he can legally bring them into MD, but must register within 90 days of establishing residency.

However, there is no penalty for not registering the firearms

THIS!

OP, stop posting here now as your son may be in hot water if he was not actually a Florida resident when he purchased his firearms.
There is no such thing as "dual residency" for non-military. Being a student and having an MC license doesn't establish residency, especially if he deliberately maintained his Maryland license and residency.

If he is a Florida resident, he's fine. If not, lawyer-up quick.

If you do not know about dual residency, it is not wise to guess. A drivers license is only one way to prove residency, each state has their own definition and regulations/laws.

 

[Pinecone]

In Florida you can legally have a MC license and not have to give up your home state license.

Jim Smith

So you are saying he was an MD resident and illegally purchased regulated firearms be misrepresenting himself as an FL resident?????

 

[WeiShen]

Going to have to break my lurker status here.

THIS!

OP, stop posting here now as your son may be in hot water if he was not actually a Florida resident when he purchased his firearms.
There is no such thing as "dual residency" for non-military. Being a student and having an MC license doesn't establish residency, especially if he deliberately maintained his Maryland license and residency.

If he is a Florida resident, he's fine. If not, lawyer-up quick.

This is not true, and this rumor needs to die.

There is a specific exemption for full-time college students. It is a small slice that has been cut out for students (and I have no idea why); Maybe they assume we can't afford it

Pursuant to ATF Ruling 80-21: http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-80-21.pdf

...it is held, that during the time the students actually reside in a college dormitory or
at an off campus location they are considered residents of the State
where the dormitory or off campus home is located.
During the time out of State college students actually
reside in their home State they are considered residents of their home
State...

As such, you can buy regulated firearms during the time you maintain a full-time residence for (full-time) education purposes, because you are treated as a resident of that state with full rights and privileges while you are actively enrolled in physical classes (vs. online or distance learning). Usually an FFL will ask you for proof of enrollment, and some kind of government issued ID that states your out-of-state college address (fishing license, hunting license, court documents, etc).

Me and several of my school colleagues regularly purchase "regulated firearms" in the state we attend school, even though we have MD or other state licenses. I myself have acquired AR-15s and handguns, before and after Oct 1st.

Any AR-15s or "banned" weapons he has acquired before Oct 1st, 2013 must be registered by 90 days.

Any AR-15s or "banned" weapons he has acquired after Oct 1st, 2013, may not be brought into the state of MD.

As per the MC license thing, that is a little tricky. Usually you forfeit your previous license when you get a new one, as you show intent to move "the majority of your possessions" and intend to settle in a new state. But it seems that FL does something different as they allow you to get just a MC license. The tricky situation is that you used that MC license to prove "residency" in FL for an institution of higher learning. As such, the MD residency is not an issue anyways, and it doesn't change my statements above. Register the weapons, and don't bring your banned post-oct 1st purchases into MD.


And good for him for finding an FFL that actually knows and respects the law. A lot of FFLs don't want to touch the student exemption with a 10 ft. pole, because they are unaware of its existence in the first place.

-W

 

[fabsroman]

However, there is no penalty for not registering the firearms





If you do not know about dual residency, it is not wise to guess. A drivers license is only one way to prove residency, each state has their own definition and regulations/laws.

I think they would look to a totality of the facts. Days spent in each state, whether property is owned in either state, where the driver's license is, where the person votes, where the person's kids go to school if the person has kids, etc. I know that is what they do for income tax purposes. Not sure how they would determine it for SB281 purposes.

How is there no penalty for not registering the firearms when a person moves to this state with the intent of establishing residency in this state:

5–144.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, a dealer or other person
may not:

(1) knowingly participate in the illegal sale, rental, transfer, purchase,
possession, or receipt of a regulated firearm in violation of this subtitle; or

(2) knowingly violate § 5–142 of this subtitle.

(b) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 5 years or a fine not exceeding $10,000 or both.

(c) Each violation of this section is a separate crime.

 

[Inigoes]

I think they would look to a totality of the facts. Days spent in each state, whether property is owned in either state, where the driver's license is, where the person votes, where the person's kids go to school if the person has kids, etc. I know that is what they do for income tax purposes. Not sure how they would determine it for SB281 purposes.

How is there no penalty for not registering the firearms when a person moves to this state with the intent of establishing residency in this state:

5–144.

(a) Except as otherwise provided in this subtitle, a dealer or other person
may not:

(1) knowingly participate in the illegal sale, rental, transfer, purchase,
possession, or receipt of a regulated firearm in violation of this subtitle; or

(2) knowingly violate § 5–142 of this subtitle.

(b) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 5 years or a fine not exceeding $10,000 or both.

(c) Each violation of this section is a separate crime.

If the firearm is owned prior to 10/1/2013, the firearm is grand fathered. If the firearm was purchased post 10/1/2013 you are correct.

 

[Pinecone]

Illegal possession could be held if you did not register.

And 5 years potential sentence is disqualifying for life.

Not worth the possible issues by not registering.