Silly Question

[blodter]

This is probably a silly question, but I am pretty sure what the answer is.

If one were to obtain a semi-automatic variant of an automatic firearm that was manufactured before 1986, would it be legal to modify that firearm to be automatic?

 

[coopermania]

NO, Those days are over.

 

[blodter]

Bah... Such a disappointment.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

No because when you convert a semi into a selectfire or FA gun, the ATF Considers that manufacturing.

So even if the semi was made pre-86, the MG would be made from a semi in 2014. Since the cut off date of new manufactured MGs was in 1986, you are 28 years to late.

Frankly, there is no easy way around the law. If there was, we would all be doing it. There are really only two ways. Pay the heavily inflated prices of todays transferable MGs or have access to a store front where you can start your own firearms business and become a dealer/manufacturer. The later tends to be fairly expensive, to the point that its not to worth it to 95% of us into MGs.

 

[gamer_jim]

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought an individual could manufacture class 3 as long as they do not transfer it? Is that only for non-MG class 3?

 

[bobthefisher]

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought an individual could manufacture class 3 as long as they do not transfer it? Is that only for non-MG class 3?

Yes, but that only applies to SBR, SBS, AOW, suppressors, and Destructive Devices (has some other restrictions for explosives). Not machineguns.

 

[pwoolford]

No because when you convert a semi into a selectfire or FA gun, the ATF Considers that manufacturing.

So even if the semi was made pre-86, the MG would be made from a semi in 2014. Since the cut off date of new manufactured MGs was in 1986, you are 28 years to late.

Frankly, there is no easy way around the law. If there was, we would all be doing it. There are really only two ways. Pay the heavily inflated prices of todays transferable MGs ...

I would only add that I still think MG's make great investments. Not many toys you can have a ton of fun with and sell for a profit down the road. Assuming the economy doesn't fall apart...in which case I'd be glad I had it!

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought an individual could manufacture class 3 as long as they do not transfer it? Is that only for non-MG class 3?

An individual can manufacture a firearm with the exception of a MG (since 86). For NFA items (often, incorrectly called Class III), you must first submit proper paperwork and have it approved. Usually a ATF Form I for a SBR...etc. There is no restriction on resale of any of these firearms. However if you are building for the purpose of resale, you must first become licensed (FFL/SOT). Of course if you wish to resell, you must have manufacturers info and serial number put on the firearm.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

I would only add that I still think MG's make great investments. Not many toys you can have a ton of fun with and sell for a profit down the road. Assuming the economy doesn't fall apart...in which case I'd be glad I had it!

Well like any investment, it comes with risk. MGs could be banned, resulting in a complete loss. They could ban sales, again no resale value. They could allow an amnesty, which would drastically increase supply resulting in lower prices. They could allow new MG manufacture which would kill other prices. Economy can drop... as it just did when $35K M2HBs dropped as low as $11K.

Its got some real risk. That said, I am still buying... and the ones I have bought are worth a fair amount more than I paid.

 

[bobthefisher]

Well like any investment, it comes with risk. MGs could be banned, resulting in a complete loss. They could ban sales, again no resale value. They could allow an amnesty, which would drastically increase supply resulting in lower prices. They could allow new MG manufacture which would kill other prices. Economy can drop... as it just did when $35K M2HBs dropped as low as $11K.

Its got some real risk. That said, I am still buying... and the ones I have bought are worth a fair amount more than I paid.

Yup, yup. I actually just had this risk vs reward conversation with a coworker, concerning machinegun purchases as investments. That being said, just bought a TBA Suppressors modified\upgraded FNC machinegun. Can't wait until the paperwork comes through.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Yup, yup. I actually just had this risk vs reward conversation with a coworker, concerning machinegun purchases as investments. That being said, just bought a TBA Suppressors modified\upgraded FNC machinegun. Can't wait until the paperwork comes through.

Depending on what you paid, FNCs I think are very well priced right now if you can get in around $8K. I had two friends buy FNCs in the last 3 months. One at $8.5K and one at $8K. Both priced pretty well. I think they will be over $10K soon.

I don't look at my MGs as investments, even if they may turn out to be. After all, its only an investment if you sell. However looking around, I am not seeing much else doing any better investment wise.

 

[bobthefisher]

TBA Suppressors adds some extra goodies to the FNC, including the H&K style bullet pictographs, 14" barrel with standard 1/2x28th thread, burst kit, fore grip rails, top cover rail, and a nice folding stock. Well worth the extra money in my opinion. It definitely makes the firearm more unique. It's hard even now to find an FNC for under $10k on GunBroker.

http://tbasuppressors.com/services-2/bullet-pictogram-engraving/

http://tbasuppressors.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/fnc2.jpg

 

[forkauto]

Bob,

You will love the FNC. I had Todd at TBA do two of mine. They are great playtoys!

 

[Biggfoot44]

It is still legal to manufacture full auto , but only for sale to LE/Govt. You would have to become liscensed as a Mfg , and make legit marketing to LE/Gov't. In the course of that you would of course have to do plenty of firing for R&D and demos.

But unless you were looking for a career change and serious investment, not a very viable option.

 

[bobthefisher]

Bob,

You will love the FNC. I had Todd at TBA do two of mine. They are great playtoys!

Do you have some decent pics? There's actually a lack of good pictures of Todd's and TBA's work on the inter-webs.

I think when the paperwork finally comes through, I will probably sh!t myself. Even got a Specwar 556 to go with it. It'll be a good day!

 

[forkauto]

Both of mine are at Duffys waiting on paperwork since September. I had one a few years ago and regretted selling it so this time I bought 2

 

[TheDevilHimself]

Here you go, Bob- pics of your gun.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Here you go, Bob- pics of your gun.

I really like the HK style Graphics on both sides. Frankly the lower receiver on the FNC looks cheap. Like they cut it out of a slap of steel. The HK graphics really help the looks of the lower. I like the original handguards but the Quad rails look good too. TBA did a good job!

Of course the down side to the FNC is that your upper is not the receiver, making it impossible to which out uppers like you can on an M16. That and Parts are hard.

I like the shortened barrel but it look like it needs a nice Suppressor!

 

[rsideout]

I really like the HK style Graphics on both sides. Frankly the lower receiver on the FNC looks cheap. Like they cut it out of a slap of steel. The HK graphics really help the looks of the lower. I like the original handguards but the Quad rails look good too. TBA did a good job!

Of course the down side to the FNC is that your upper is not the receiver, making it impossible to which out uppers like you can on an M16. That and Parts are hard.

I like the shortened barrel but it look like it needs a nice Suppressor!

Parts are definitely an issue with the FNC. A few people are now making after market firing pins. They run about $35. Its the bigger fire control and BCG parts that can be an issue. If you can find them, a full set of lower receiver parts, bolt, and a bolt carrier will run you $2,000+. Fortuantely, I've got most of those spare parts.

I'll take a picture of my gun when I get home. It's similar to the one pictured above, but has a few more options/upgrades.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

I have two other friends getting an FNC, Rsideout. I know you know the one. I am wondering how optics are going to work with the stock options out there. Seems to be this is a fairly tall gun. I think one is going to want a higher stock than the standard stock. Any ideas there guys? I know Stormworkz has these: http://stormwerkz.com/stock-adapters/