Saiga 12 surfire 12 rd mag problems

[Mr BoomStick]

I have 3 of the surfire 12 rd mags in 12 gauge. They cycle poorly in general by hitting the feed ramp with all makes and price ranges of 2 3/4 inch shells. Has anyone else had similar issues. I did swap the elevator out of the stock factory mag to see if it made a difference and as far as i can tell there is but i was shooting at iwla and didn't want to scare the locals with a near bump fire of the shotgun to test for cyclic issues. When looking into the chamber with the bolt back and locked you can clearly see a difference in angle with the stock elevator in the stock mag and in the surefire mag that i swapped the elevator out to. The stock elevator is slightly flatter where as the surefire stick up noticeably further.

 

[clandestine]

Youll need to modify the Upper Bullet Guide (Polish it), and open up the Gas Port.

Sometimes lighter Springs are needed (Hammer and 1st Stage Recoil Spring), and a 4 position gas adjuster.

S12's ar voodoo science to some, and not many people can make them run under all conditions. Im one of them, so if you cant get her going let me know.

 

[Mr BoomStick]

You mean have the ports worked so their larger? I know mines only a 3 port gun. There is a distinct difference in angle of the follower on the stock mag to the surfires. The surfire sits at a steeper angle which leads me to believe its a mag issue. I will order one of those gas fixers and polish the ramp and see how that goes, and the gas fixer is a good idea anyway the stock one is a pita. I agree its voodoo. I must be using the wrong kind of doll and chicken blood to get the spell to work

 

[clandestine]

You mean have the ports worked so their larger? I know mines only a 3 port gun. There is a distinct difference in angle of the follower on the stock mag to the surfires. The surfire sits at a steeper angle which leads me to believe its a mag issue. I will order one of those gas fixers and polish the ramp and see how that goes, and the gas fixer is a good idea anyway the stock one is a pita. I agree its voodoo. I must be using the wrong kind of doll and chicken blood to get the spell to work

You got it te posts have to be made larger, have a forth port added or make one ot two large ports. You have to do it at the proper angle with the Gas block removed. Cutting the ports the wrong size or at athe wrong angle will be bad.

Try the gas plug, and ramp polish and let me know how things go.

You are correct that the follower and mag amkes the rounds sit differently than the factory mags do, but with some mods both Factory and the Surefire will work.

Be careful with the chicken blood it will eat the finish. You have to wash it off with Vodka.

 

[Mr BoomStick]

Rofl, thanks for helping with that i ordered an E tac twister puck and gunfixers 4 setting gas plug. Hopefully that helps if not ill need to find someone to add a port. Thanks for the tip with the chicken blood its a real pain to remove with standard household cleaners im sure the vodka will work well

 

[boatbod]

A Gunfixer plug on its own won't add more gas if you don't have enough to start with. For a 19" barrel with 3 gas ports, each port should be .093" (3/32") diameter. Some of the recent guns have been coming in with 3 ports drilled at .070", so that might be part of your problem.

 

[Mr BoomStick]

its a 24 inch barrel but I'm leaning toward getting the gas system either opened up or having another port drilled if possible.

 

[boatbod]

its a 24 inch barrel but I'm leaning toward getting the gas system either opened up or having another port drilled if possible.

Ah, I see. I'm led to believe that longer guns typically only have 2 ports.

How far does your gun eject Federal bulk pack empties when the gas plug is set to #2? Ideally it should be 2-3' or more. If it's only dribbling them out and dropping them at your feet you are either undergassed or have issues with rough spots in the action.

+1 for Chad's suggestion to polish the upper feed ramp. You might also want to have a look at the lower one next to the extractor slot.

If you haven't discovered it already, a great source of information is forum.saiga-12.com. There's a ton of good tuning discussion in the "Saiga 12" and "Tech Section" forums.

 

[Mr BoomStick]

It chucks the spent casings a good 5 to 10 ft away. I'll have to check out saiga12.com.

 

[jersey]

its a failure to feed issue. polishing the feed ramps may help i think. though the surefire mags do have an hi angle on they elevator.

 

[boatbod]

It chucks the spent casings a good 5 to 10 ft away. I'll have to check out saiga12.com.

5-10ft? Not a gas problem then.

Is the rear of the Surefire mag sitting fully into the receiver? It almost sounds like it's too low leaving the shells arriving at a much higher angle.

FWIW my Surefire mags worked great right out of the box, so there is definitely something else going on here.

Pics showing a side profile of an inserted mag might be useful, as would a view down inside the gun with a mag in and the dust cover off.

 

[Mr BoomStick]

I'll see if i can get some posted. I was considering doing the mag well quick release mod if i can get these to work right.

 

[Mr BoomStick]

Camera and windows arent talking right now so i cant get the pics off my phone. I did check that the magazine is indeed in and locked the way they sit is exactly as they sit in ever other picture i have seen. I may just wait and see what is going on with the new mags set to be released this year and just dump these pos'es off or shoot them with the saiga .

 

[IlikeNFA]

know anyone else with a 12? if so, try it in theirs and then you can know for certain.

 

[boatbod]

know anyone else with a 12? if so, try it in theirs and then you can know for certain.

Send 'em to me. My S-12 runs Surefire mags just fine.

If they were ProMags, I'd definitely agree with shooting them!

 

[Mr BoomStick]

Lol pro mags suck indeed. I contacted Surefire and it seem I'm on my own they claim to having no problems with their magazines. I know for a fact that the follower is off and at too steep of an angle, about 4 to 5 mm. I'm going to try and see if putting the factory mag's follower in fixes that issue. There is a noticeable difference in angle. I also got an e-tac twister puck and gun fixers gas plug. It may just be a gas problem or improper delivery of gas.

 

[Mr BoomStick]

i got to the range today with the new mods. the e-tac puck definitely needs more gas to operate, so i will probably get some port work done, but that was not the issue at hand since swapping the factory 5 rd follower into the Unsureifitwillfiire mag to see if it will miss feed it didn't. The factory 5 rd did have some issues with the surefire follower though causing the last shell to hang on the follower. I didn't get to speed cycle the gun due to iwla getting squirrly about that sort of thing. Mind you i was intentionally using the Winchester wal mart value pack ammo, known to have issues with saigas. I had issues with ejecting the rounds, but that was due to getting used to the new gas fixer plug. Once i got its settings figured out for my shotgun it was good. Remington buckshot had no real issues and slugs were fine. IT was as i suspected and issue with surefires follower angle. I am waiting on the metal mags to come out and the quick release for them. After this run around with surefire i dont want to deal with them any longer.

 

[boatbod]

IT was as i suspected and issue with surefires follower angle.

What I don't understand is the metric ton of people out there using Surefire mags with zero problem. If it was a design issue with the follower at the wrong angle, wouldn't we all have the same issue?

 

[clandestine]

What I don't understand is the metric ton of people out there using Surefire mags with zero problem. If it was a design issue with the follower at the wrong angle, wouldn't we all have the same issue?

This is correct, the followers are different and so are the angles on the Surefire S12 Mags, but this gun in particular is definately mag sensitive.

It just needs the right tuning and it will work with a Surefure without issue.

 

[Mr BoomStick]

No since the saiga 12 is a hand made gun. There are more people having issues then you think or surefire would like to admit. There is a reason they have a "Kit" out for the surefire mags that replaces the spring follower and floor plate. That's why when you call surefire you get the rhetoric about having no issues and to call whomever you purchased them from or RAA themselves for help. That is also why they don't list contact info on their website they know there is a problem and they don't want to deal with it or have to replace all the mags that don't work right. Some have had the mags blow apart after one use the bolt comes back and the mag falls out. If you having no problem man that's great to hear that there's hope, but me and i' m sure many others are having problems with these mags.