SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

[Inigoes]

But if you don't own a computer, it's not.

Ideally, we should only have a one stop shop at a local MSP barracks. Fill out the app, fingerprinted, and photos taken.

That's another day, after the fog clears...

 

[Virginian Templar]

Ideally, we should only have a one stop shop at a local MSP barracks. Fill out the app, fingerprinted, and photos taken.

That's another day, after the fog clears...

Ideally Constitutional Carry would be Nationwide.

 

[Kimerazor]

When I was 21 and a resident of PA, my father made me get my CCW even though I told him that I wasn't going to carry a gun. He told me that you never know when you will want to do so. Smart man (I realize now). $20 and 15 minutes to receive my permit.

It's hard to fathom that it takes up to 90 days in Maryland.

 

[menacek04]

When I was 21 and a resident of PA, my father made me get my CCW even though I told him that I wasn't going to carry a gun. He told me that you never know when you will want to do so. Smart man (I realize now). $20 and 15 minutes to receive my permit.

It's hard to fathom that it takes up to 90 days in Maryland.

If you think 90 days is crazy, try getting one from New Castle County DE...
6 month minimum turnaround as of late.... Now that is crazy.


With the telecon happening so late in the day (4:30pm) yesterday per the memorandum to counsel. I would assume that we will not hear word until next week.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

When I was 21 and a resident of PA, my father made me get my CCW even though I told him that I wasn't going to carry a gun. He told me that you never know when you will want to do so. Smart man (I realize now). $20 and 15 minutes to receive my permit.

It's hard to fathom that it takes up to 90 days in Maryland.

Up to 90 days? HA! Some would consider that speedy here. Let's HOPE that it is JUST 90 days when the dust settles!

 

[fightinbluhen51]

If you think 90 days is crazy, try getting one from New Castle County DE...
6 month minimum turnaround as of late.... Now that is crazy.


With the telecon happening so late in the day (4:30pm) yesterday per the memorandum to counsel. I would assume that we will not hear word until next week.

The alternative to them is that they have open carry. However...if you ever read Mike W.'s stuff at www.anothergunblog.com it's a PITA to carry openly in NCC, DE. Open carry in a state park, no go. CC in a state park is ok though. Numerous school zone violations, you betcha. Concealed Carry in a school zone, not on school property (good old Slick Willy's 1000' zone crap), and you are in compliance with the carved out exemptions.

It's kinda nuts.

There there are the stories of people going to Christian Mall who don't have permits for concealed, and being ordained to carry concealed by state police in the parking lot, just so the DE state troopers don't have to answer man with holstered gun calls.

Yeah, DE is a PITA, yet with my VA non-res permit, I have more rights than Mike W. Some much for due process and equal protection huh?

Life free, or there!

 

[Dead Eye]

Dead Eye, would you be willing to post the actual language of that e-mail, with personally identifying information removed, of course?

"Thanks for sharing your communications with me. Hopefully we will have more direction from the court (today) so we can move forward with your request. I know I am anxious to know how to proceed as well. I'm anticipating similar situations with many who are in the same position. Judge Legg's response to a legal review is crucial before I can give you a clear and definitive answer. We will try to ensure the public, including citizens like yourself, receive information through our media resources so all Marylanders will know how to obtain their permits. I will hold your letter and provide you a personal call when I know more. Thanks!"

Which is a far cry from the original hardcopy letter I received, of:

"Your letter requesting a handgun permit based on your 2009 application has been received. Your appeal was heard and denied by the Cecil County Circuit Court in August 2011. Therefore, you will need to submit another application if you want to obtain a handgun permit."

 

[csanc123]

Cordial and actually sounds promising! Keeping fingers crossed here....

"Thanks for sharing your communications with me. Hopefully we will have more direction from the court (today) so we can move forward with your request. I know I am anxious to know how to proceed as well. I'm anticipating similar situations with many who are in the same position. Judge Legg's response to a legal review is crucial before I can give you a clear and definitive answer. We will try to ensure the public, including citizens like yourself, receive information through our media resources so all Marylanders will know how to obtain their permits. I will hold your letter and provide you a personal call when I know more. Thanks!"

Which is a far cry from the original hardcopy letter I received, of:

"Your letter requesting a handgun permit based on your 2009 application has been received. Your appeal was heard and denied by the Cecil County Circuit Court in August 2011. Therefore, you will need to submit another application if you want to obtain a handgun permit."

 

[Papi4baby]

Cordial and actually sounds promising! Keeping fingers crossed here....

It has been mentioned before, but i will say it again.

Most of the actual MSP officers are not our enemies, they are just following orders and procedures.

They get a bad rap, but they can only do so much.

 

[Dave MP]

Judge Legg's response to a legal review is crucial before I can give you a clear and definitive answer.

Should that read "Good and Substantial"?

 

[fxdunigan]

It has been mentioned before, but i will say it again.

Most of the actual MSP officers are not our enemies, they are just following orders and procedures.

They get a bad rap, but they can only do so much.

 

[kid_man]

Should that read "Good and Substantial"?

 

[Dead Eye]

It has been mentioned before, but i will say it again.

Most of the actual MSP officers are not our enemies, they are just following orders and procedures.

They get a bad rap, but they can only do so much.

Like anything, you have the good with the bad. For the most part, they have been very professional, holding onto what I can only guess is all they have to hold on to (like the rest of us), at this point, being "wait and see".

Should that read "Good and Substantial"?

Old (bad) habits, are hard to break.

 

[Braxtonian]

If you think 90 days is crazy, try getting one from New Castle County DE...
6 month minimum turnaround as of late.... Now that is crazy.


With the telecon happening so late in the day (4:30pm) yesterday per the memorandum to counsel. I would assume that we will not hear word until next week.

1. What happens if it is determines the G&S language isn't severable?

2. Isn't #3 and #4 on the memorandum going to make MD look like a bunch of derps?

 

[martinithebun]

How is severability measured or determined?

I try to keep up so I apologize for asking if it's been covered.

 

[Dave21042]

How is severability measured or determined?

I try to keep up so I apologize for asking if it's been covered.

The same way G&S is, it is in the eye of the one with power.

 

[Dead Eye]

How is severability measured or determined?

I try to keep up so I apologize for asking if it's been covered.

IANAL, but as I understand severability, it has to do with if you pull the language from the law, do you make the law so that it is either unintelligible, or unenforceable? In this case, IMHO, "good and substantial" is easily severable. That is why Atty Gura points out, that if the language is stricken, MD's law becomes like that of 40 other States - still understandable and enforceable.

 

[Broadside]

Please note that anything I write becomes null and void once esqappellate replies.

I would speculate that if the judge determines that G&S is not severable from the rest of the law, then he would nullify all the law related to issuing permit and impose a permitting scheme of his own until such time that the legislature can enact a process which meets with his approval.

However, this would be a worse case scenario, I believe.

As Dead Eye points out, I can't see why G&S can't be removed from the law and still have a workable permitting scheme.

 

[jkray]

Possible Circuit Split

I got an email alert from the NRA this morning and in part said the following

The decision, handed down by U.S. District Judge Sam Cummings of the Northern District of Texas, came in the case of Jennings v. McCraw, in which a group of law-abiding 18- to 20-year old adults challenged the state law prohibiting issuance of concealed handgun licenses to persons under 21, who are treated as adults for virtually every other purpose under the law. (The NRA is also a party on behalf of its members in this age group.)

Judge Cummings ruled that it was unnecessary to address the state’s discrimination against young adults because “the right to carry a handgun outside of the home … seems to be beyond the scope of the core Second Amendment concern articulated in [District of Columbia v.] Heller.” In fact, the Supreme Court in Heller never said the Second Amendment doesn’t apply outside the home. The court only said that the home is the place “where the need for defense of self, family, and property is most acute”—implying that there are other places where the need is less acute, but still exists. Likewise, the Court suggested that it would uphold bans on carrying guns in “sensitive places”—which implies that carrying in places that are not “sensitive” would be protected under the Second Amendment.

It claims that this creates a split in the circuits. Is this enough to get Woollard to SCOTUS?

 

[Southwest Chuck]

It would have to be affirmed by the court of appeals in that circuit for a split to occur . This is just a District Court ruling as I understand it. (This is assuming that the 4th affirms the Woolard decision, of course).

Two Circuits have to issue different ruling for a split to occur. Right now, we have two different District Courts (in two different circuits) with different rulings. Both need appealing and rulings issued by their respective Circuits. If their holding are contradictory, then we have a split and hopefully a SCOTUS Review.