SAF SUES IN MARYLAND OVER HANDGUN PERMIT DENIAL UPDATED 3-5-12

[MDFF2008]

Did you really censor God? Why? Or is that not what you meant?

Collectively I think the percentage is less than 50 that truly want CCW and would fight for it.

It's not censorship so much as some people take the commandment "Thou Shalt Not Take the Lord's Name in Vain" very seriously so they never write the word "God" out.

 

[faze]

It's not censorship so much as some people take the commandment "Thou Shalt Not Take the Lord's Name in Vain" very seriously so they never write the word "God" out.

You weren't, you were referring to his name, but whatever.

 

[Glaug-Eldare]

Did you really censor God? Why? Or is that not what you meant?

Collectively I think the percentage is less than 50 that truly want CCW and would fight for it.

Jews commonly use "G-d" online to follow the strict prohibition on taking His name in vain.


Aaaalso, it doesn't take a majority to win. It takes a strong minority that gives a damn. The majority is usually apathetic, and politicians don't concentrate on apathetic voters.

 

[MDFF2008]

You weren't, you were referring to his name, but whatever.

It's a strict reading but it's not meant to be disrespectful or anything. Every single Jewish person I know does it, and some Christians do too.

Back to the subject though...

I've done this stuff for 2 years, and I have def seem some flaming anti's.

But for every flaming anti; there have been 10 "I want it; but it'll never happen."

I went to a GUN AUCTION and out of over 100 people, 1 PERSON joined MSI.

I think the anti's thrive not because they are being fed by opinion; but because the pro-gun people are silent.

 

[faze]

Jews commonly use "G-d" online to follow the strict prohibition on taking His name in vain.


Aaaalso, it doesn't take a majority to win. It takes a strong minority that gives a damn. The majority is usually apathetic, and politicians don't concentrate on apathetic voters.

Well the strong minority isn't giving a damn enough then. We need to cut this nasty law off at the source.

 

[Boondock Saint]

Well the strong minority isn't giving a damn enough then. We need to cut this nasty law off at the source.

It would seem you've gone from "why try?" to "where are the bastards and how do I compel them?" in a short period of time.

 

[krucam]

Well the strong minority isn't giving a damn enough then. We need to cut this nasty law off at the source.

In a Federally Judicial manner....not Legislative, save that for another thread, for which there are many.

 

[Mr H]

It would seem you've gone from "why try?" to "where are the bastards and how do I compel them?" in a short period of time.

You say that like it's a bad thing.......

 

[MDFF2008]

It would seem you've gone from "why try?" to "where are the bastards and how do I compel them?" in a short period of time.

Maybe he didn't know there was an active organization fighting?

I'd love to have him as a member.

 

[faze]

It would seem you've gone from "why try?" to "where are the bastards and how do I compel them?" in a short period of time.

Welcome to frustration fueled by hopelessness. I don't have the option to leave the state, yet we're one of NINE states left without shall issue.

 

[Glaug-Eldare]

Welcome to frustration fueled by hopelessness. I don't have the option to leave the state, yet we're one of NINE states left without shall issue.

The way I see it, we have the opportunity, here more than other states, to not just hold the frontline, but to win. If Maryland falls, the Bradies and Bloombergs aren't going to be satisfied -- Virginia becomes the frontline. Maybe it starts with ending preemption...then NOVA bans guns...then, we have to turn the tide all over again. Around the country, the momentum is on OUR side. The facts are on OUR side. The Constitution is on OUR side. This is our fight to lose.

 

[faze]

The way I see it, we have the opportunity, here more than other states, to not just hold the frontline, but to win. If Maryland falls, the Bradies and Bloombergs aren't going to be satisfied -- Virginia becomes the frontline. Maybe it starts with ending preemption...then NOVA bans guns...then, we have to turn the tide all over again. Around the country, the momentum is on OUR side. The facts are on OUR side. The Constitution is on OUR side. This is our fight to lose.

How do we fight this though? We've been fighting this for 45 years or more. I mean when was CCW actually legal in Maryland?

 

[MDFF2008]

If Maryland "falls" in the eyes of the Bloomberg; I think New York, New Jersey, CA and IL will be be the new frontier.

 

[faze]

If Maryland "falls" in the eyes of the Bloomberg; I think New York, New Jersey, CA and IL will be be the new frontier.

Lol New York and New Jersey? I don't think that is any new frontier for CCW. They will always see liberally for this.

Regarding the history of this stupid law, was open carry or concealed carry every 100% allowed in Maryland? Just trying to understand this. I'm sure at one point not even a permit was needed to carry a gun, but anybody have a timeline for how this progressed?

 

[MDFF2008]

http://marylandshallissue.org/get-informed/historical-information/racism-maryland-gun-laws/

It's fairly informative as a time line, or a review of racism in anti-gun politics.

 

[Boondock Saint]

Lol New York and New Jersey? I don't think that is any new frontier for CCW. They will always see liberally for this.

Regarding the history of this stupid law, was open carry or concealed carry every 100% allowed in Maryland? Just trying to understand this. I'm sure at one point not even a permit was needed to carry a gun, but anybody have a timeline for how this progressed?

http://marylandshallissue.org/get-informed/historical-information/racism-maryland-gun-laws/

http://marylandshallissue.org/get-informed/historical-information/the-racist-roots-of-gun-control/

 

[faze]

http://marylandshallissue.org/get-informed/historical-information/racism-maryland-gun-laws/

It's fairly informative as a time line, or a review of racism in anti-gun politics.

Yeah...

“That the Inhabitants of Maryland are entitled to the Common Law of England … and to the benefit of such of the English statutes as existed on the Fourth day of July, seventeen hundred and seventy-six.” (Maryland Declaration of Rights, Art. 5a in both the original (1776) and current Maryland Constitutions) Under English Common Law around the time our Maryland and U.S. Constitutions were being written, it was not only a right to have and carry arms for self-defense but it was considered the duty of citizens to protect themselves as well as others: “The right of his majesty's Protestant subjects, to have arms for their own defence, and to use them for lawful purposes, is most clear and undeniable. It seems, indeed, to be considered, by the ancient laws of this kingdom, not only as a right, but as a duty; for all the subjects of the realm, who are able to bear arms, are bound to be ready, at all times, to assist the sheriff, and other civil magistrates, in the execution of the laws and the preservation of the public peace.” Opinion of the Recorder of London, 1780 (The Recorder of London was the foremost legal advisor to the city.)As neighboring Virginian Patrick Henry put it during Virginia's ratification convention 1788, “The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.” (The Debates of the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution at 386, Jonathan Elliot, New York, Burt Franklin: 1888)1809A law prohibiting any carry of weapons “with the intent feloniously to assault any person.” (Archives of Maryland 570:94) Any carry, concealed or open, with no permit required for citizens, was still legal as long as it was without felonious intent.

Pretty sure our entire state government doesn't know jack about this.

 

[faze]

Open carry of weapons in Maryland requires a permit for the first time ever – after more than 300 years of unrestricted open carry by citizens. (Archives of Maryland, 708:48-51) It now requires a permit from the Maryland State Police to carry a handgun in any way – concealed or open – State Police are to determine whether citizens have “good and substantial” reasons to carry a handgun, which show the permit is necessary “as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.” The only previous time in Maryland history that any and all carry required a permit was in 1831 and applied to free blacks only. The adoption of discretionary carry laws are a direct result from fears of the Baltimore Race Riots in 1968, and the rise in crime after the national gun control act of 1968. The similarity of this 1972 law to the 1831 law in response to the slave rebellion is striking and inescapable.

So what happened in 1972? There's the issue.

 

[Glaug-Eldare]

How do we fight this though? We've been fighting this for 45 years or more. I mean when was CCW actually legal in Maryland?

It's been a long time, and I've never known what it's like to enjoy uninfringed gun rights. It can be discouraging, but on the other hand, there are far, far more shooters and liberty lovers in Maryland than have shown up at MSI events, and even with the modest turnout so far, we've achieved important goals. Other states laugh at us, but MSI has held the line against horrific legislation that would've brought us closer to New Jersey than Virginia. You can read about it at MSI's website, don't take my word for it.

Even if that weren't the case, this struggle isn't just about some minor political issue. This is life, death, liberty, and tyranny. This is about raising our kids to understand that our ancestors fought to make sure they would be citizens and not subjects. It's about the right to feed ourselves, protect our families, and defend our shores. It's preserving the American Revolution and honoring the Old Line.



I'm reminded of a line from Reagan's "A Time For Choosing" speech. It's about standing up to the Soviet Union, not gun control, but still:


"We're at war with the most dangerous enemy that has ever faced mankind in his long climb from the swamp to the stars, and it's been said if we lose that war, and in so doing lose this way of freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment that those who had the most to lose did the least to prevent its happening. Well I think it's time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that were intended for us by the Founding Fathers.

Not too long ago, two friends of mine were talking to a Cuban refugee, a businessman who had escaped from Castro, and in the midst of his story one of my friends turned to the other and said, 'We don't know how lucky we are.' And the Cuban stopped and said, 'How lucky you are? I had someplace to escape to.' And in that sentence he told us the entire story. If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth." - Ronald Reagan, 27 October 1964

I want my home state to be one of those places that people escape to, not from.

 

[faze]

It's been a long time, and I've never known what it's like to enjoy uninfringed gun rights. It can be discouraging, but on the other hand, there are far, far more shooters and liberty lovers in Maryland than have shown up at MSI events, and even with the modest turnout so far, we've achieved important goals. Other states laugh at us, but MSI has held the line against horrific legislation that would've brought us closer to New Jersey than Virginia. You can read about it at MSI's website, don't take my word for it.

Even if that weren't the case, this struggle isn't just about some minor political issue. This is life, death, liberty, and tyranny. This is about raising our kids to understand that our ancestors fought to make sure they would be citizens and not subjects. It's about the right to feed ourselves, protect our families, and defend our shores. It's preserving the American Revolution and honoring the Old Line.



I'm reminded of a line from Reagan's "A Time For Choosing" speech. It's about standing up to the Soviet Union, not gun control, but still:


"We're at war with the most dangerous enemy that has ever faced mankind in his long climb from the swamp to the stars, and it's been said if we lose that war, and in so doing lose this way of freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment that those who had the most to lose did the least to prevent its happening. Well I think it's time we ask ourselves if we still know the freedoms that were intended for us by the Founding Fathers.

Not too long ago, two friends of mine were talking to a Cuban refugee, a businessman who had escaped from Castro, and in the midst of his story one of my friends turned to the other and said, 'We don't know how lucky we are.' And the Cuban stopped and said, 'How lucky you are? I had someplace to escape to.' And in that sentence he told us the entire story. If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to. This is the last stand on earth." - Ronald Reagan, 27 October 1964

I want my home state to be one of those places that people escape to, not from.

Good read friend. I am not from Maryland, my family is from here but my roots are not here so I can't share the appriciation for the state like you. I am from Arizona, and spent most of my life in York Pennsylvania. Both states are big advocates of the second amendment. Moving to Maryland is a shocker to me for the 2nd amendment aspect and the violent crime, and compassion towards criminals and other low lifes. It's just...I can't put it into words.