reform the nra

[goa]

The message below is from Chris W. Stark - Webring Manager and Director for Gun Owners Alliance:

There was a time that I actually advocated resigning one's NRA membership, because I was so disgusted with the compromises, and back door deals the NRA was making with politicians, at the expense of losing our 2nd amendment rights. However, over the years I began to realize that if we are to reign in this wild, and out of control gun lobby, we would have to learn from our enemy to INFILTRATE the halls of the NRA with a strong, no-compromising Board of Directors, that will insist on change and get the job done! And you can only vote for the NRA board of directors by being at least a 5 year renewing member, or a life member of the NRA. The VERY people that resign their NRA memberships out of disgust (due to the compromise NRA is well known for), are exactly the members that could have cast the vote to throw the compromisers out of the NRA! Go to http://www.GunOwnersAlliance.com/NRA.htm to see how we view the NRA.

Friends, boycotts against the NRA do not work to reign the NRA into submission, and stop compromising our rights away. Joining other gun organizations is a very good step and much needed, but it is not the total and final solution to this dilemma. If it was, we would have won the battle by now! The truth is, the NRA is NOT going away, for there will always be enough simple-minded people that will "blindly" follow "Moses" in spite of what is right or wrong (you will try in vain to change their minds). Equally, as long as the NRA has $80 million to spend on funding an election cycle, you will have politicians sell their soul to get their hands on this money, and will do whatever the NRA tells them to do to keep the money coming! If we can just get NRA to tell them the right thing, we might turn this battle around!

$25.00 - $35.00 per year for an NRA membership does not line NRA's wallet by a long shot. Their real money comes from additional contributions apart from annual membership dues! Annual membership dues cover the money they spend on your initial membership. So, if you are worried about promoting gun control by keeping your NRA membership, think again. It is a break even situation for them at the price they offer an annual membership. I know this to be a SOLID FACT. Just don't give them any more than the annual membership!

 

[K31]

Quoting Bill Clinton's smear of Charlton Heston (who is no longer the President of the NRA by the way) is hardly a way to sway the "simple-minded" membership of the NRA such as myself.

And BTW, the "simple-minded" are not overly happy with the way that the NRA has treated Maryland, particularly in the last election and I have in fact re-thought my membership. If you are representative of GOA however then perhaps I'll look into JPFO.

 

[Norton]

Sort of funny how that Gun Owners Alliance page is carefully designed to look just like the Gun Owners of America site.

I'm no fan of the NRA, given their track record of hanging MD out to dry but splintering our efforts by trying to weaken the NRA is counter productive.

 

[DD214]

The first two paragraphs on that page linked above (http://www.GunOwnersAlliance.com/NRA.htm) are enough to ensure that I will never support that organization in any way. Comparing NRA members to Holocaust victims, thereby implying that the NRA are the Nazi sympathizers, and then comparing the NRA to pedophiles is just stupid, immature, and sick. (by the way, as sick as the Church scandal was, it was less than 4% of priests who were accused, as opposed to the reported 6.7% of educators in our school system. Don't you fake GOA bastards blow that bad situation out of proportion to make your sick point. That situation was bad enough with out jackasses such as yourself making it even bigger than it actually was.)

After reading much of the ******** on that site, I came to the conclusion that Chris W. Stark - Director for Gun Owners Alliance, is most likely an operative for the Brady Campaign. Either that or he is just really, really stupid. Don't trust these people.

And while I too am unhappy with the NRAs apparent lack of support for MD, it must be said that if they did not exist we as a nation would most likely have been disarmed many years ago. What has this so called "Gun Owners Alliance" done other than try to destroy a REAL gun rights organization? Morons.

[/Rant off]

 

[Norton]

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/jpfoanti.htm

Scroll down a bit.....

 

[DD214]

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/jpfoanti.htm

Scroll down a bit.....

Yep, as expected, Chris W. Stark associates with batshit crazy conspiracy theorists. If you go to the homepage of that link you sent (apfn.org), you will see that they are nut jobs who advance the theory that the US government perpetrated 9/11. You know how I feel about those people.

 

[Spot77]

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/jpfoanti.htm

Scroll down a bit.....

I scolled down a LOT....did anybody else notice THIS on that website:

Last updated on 05/27/02 06:23 PM

Way to stay current guys!

 

[BenL]

After reading much of the ******** on that site, I came to the conclusion that Chris W. Stark - Director for Gun Owners Alliance, is most likely an operative for the Brady Campaign. Either that or he is just really, really stupid. Don't trust these people.

And while I too am unhappy with the NRAs apparent lack of support for MD, it must be said that if they did not exist we as a nation would most likely have been disarmed many years ago. What has this so called "Gun Owners Alliance" done other than try to destroy a REAL gun rights organization? Morons.

[/Rant off]

+1

 

[goa]

and just exactly what was the smear you are talking about? i posted that piece because i thought it would be food for thought on reforming the nra. i am not associated with gun owners alliance and im not responsible for everything they say and why should i have to get everything about my postings approved by people on this site anyway? just take the good stuff and leave the rest. do you believe everything you read? jews for the preservation of firearms is very similar to goa and are probably linked. here is a guy who will stay in the nra,but will reject goa out of hand because something does not fit perfectly with his agenda and because of a perceived insult about charleton heston. no wonder we are losing our gun rights.

 

[goa]

the nra is the group that is splintering efforts against gun control. the problem is pro gun control advocates in the nra compromising with pro gun control politicians. reforming the nra would include putting pro gun members on the board of the nra. thats the idea of the piece i posted. do you understand?

 

[SamW]

I agree the NRA hasn't done much of anything for Maryland, but we still need them. We need all the help we can get at the local level as well as the Federal level.

 

[goa]

just how is stark an advocate for the brady campaign? i looked over the site thoroughly and i didnt get that. i seem to remember that the nra may have supported the brady campaign. given its board is so infested with gun control types i wouldnt be surprised.

the nra is helping to disarm america and so is the democrat and republican party.

and just what support were you expecting from the nra? you want them to come in here and make deals with the pro gun politicians in this state? is that what you want?

 

[jpk1md]

Change comes from within....you want to change the NRA and force them to adopt a different stance then get active in the Org.....in the meantime they are the only ones that are respected in Washington.....when was the last time you heard a C-Critter make a comment like "GOA is SOOOO POWERFUL that they wont let us do ABC"....NEVER!!!! But we DO hear ALL the time about how powerful the NRA is.....

I'll keep payin' my dues and periodically call them to tell them how I feel on the issues but I certainly am not about to cut off my nose to spite my face.

 

[DD214]

and just exactly what was the smear you are talking about? i posted that piece because i thought it would be food for thought on reforming the nra.

Whoever conjured up that gem of an intro needs their head checked. They immediately employ the Nazi hyperbole, which alone I find highly offensive. I'm not a Jew that is about to inhale a lethal dose of Zyklon-B or be placed in an incinerator, and equating the two is not only in bad taste, but a sign of intellectual immaturity. As soon as I read that, I lost all respect for the fake GOA.

But I kept reading and found the next hyperbole to be employed happened to be equating the Catholic Church scandal with the NRA and its members. Huh?? Anyway, while I abhor what a small percentage of the priests did, and would never deny that it happened, I also will not stand for someone blowing it out of proportion and claiming that it is "a widespread problem". No it is NOT. The fact of the matter is that it was less than 4% of the clergy who who were accused, which is far below the national average for organizations that work with kids. Yes, 4% is 4% too many, but lets not blow it up to 40%. The vast majority of the priests in this country are good men who have sacrificed themselves for the good of the community, and would never harm a child. Seeing them maligned only to make some ill conceived point about the NRA made me absolutely FURIOUS!

My suggestion is that Chris Stark go to Amazon and get himself a copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People. After he has read the book, he should then use what he learned to rewrite that awful intro so that maybe he won't drive people away from his organization after reading the very first sentence.

i am not associated with gun owners alliance

OK, goa, you are in no way associated with Gun Owners Alliance . Or maybe your name is in reference to the real GOA, Gun Owners of America?

and im not responsible for everything they say and why should i have to get everything about my postings approved by people on this site anyway?

You don't, but up until we responded to this thread you only had 2 posts, both of which were flame bait attacks on the NRA. If the only thing you can contribute to this community of gun owners is attacks on the NRA, then I question your motives for being here.

Having to have your posts approved would mean that A) posts are moderated, which they are not B) posts that we do not agree with get deleted, which they do not.

One of my favorite sayings is "if you wear a clown suit, people are going to laugh", just as if you come in here heaping coals on the NRA by posting asinine links such as the link to the fake GOA, someone is going to snap. Most of us are ticked off at the NRA for their perceived lack of support here in MD, but I believe the majority of us also know that ultimately they are on our side.

just take the good stuff and leave the rest. do you believe everything you read? jews for the preservation of firearms is very similar to goa and are probably linked.

Here is an abbreviated outline of the fake GOA website:

********
********
********
********
Good Stuff!
********
********
********
********

And you expect me to take them seriously?? Come on.

here is a guy who will stay in the nra,but will reject goa out of hand because something does not fit perfectly with his agenda and because of a perceived insult about charleton heston.

I guess part of this statement is referring to me, although I didn't say anything about Charlton Heston. Of course I will stay in the NRA, because even though I don't approve of everything they do, I will not, as jpk1md put it, cut off my nose to spite my face. They do a lot of good on the national level, and to deny that would be foolish to say the least. If you search this board you will find that I am by no means a blind follower of the NRA.

I rejected the fake GOA after the first paragraph of the intro statement, as explained above. And yes, part of my rejection is due to my "agenda", which is the preservation and expansion of my 2nd Amendment rights, and I see the fake GOA as a liability to my agenda.

no wonder we are losing our gun rights.

Last I checked, we have been doing pretty well over the past few years, largely due to the efforts of the NRA and its members. The expiration of the Clinton AWB, CCW in almost every state in the Union (except for a few liberal holdouts, such as MD), the Parker case in DC, the defeat of the AWB in MD thanks in no part to the NRA, but rather the devoted individual citizens of the state of MD who put in a lot of hard work, etc. That in no way implies that everything is rosy, far from it, but rather we are fighting a constant onslaught of attacks on our 2A rights, and the only way we are going to win is by banding together as a community, not attacking each other as the fake GOA is keen to do.

 

[Jim Sr]

FYI Post:

NRA published “position” statements on HR 297 today

 

[K31]

and just exactly what was the smear you are talking about?

"Duh, I don't know what you were talking about?" and then in the last sentence you mention Charlton Heston? Can't you maintain your train of thought through at least a paragraph? I guess you have trouble going outside of the script, AKA talking points.

i posted that piece because i thought it would be food for thought on reforming the nra. i am not associated with gun owners alliance

No? Are you with the Bradys or some Soros front group that invented it?

and im not responsible for everything they say and why should i have to get everything about my postings approved by people on this site anyway?

No one said you did, but since it's not your site that's really not up to you now is it?

jews for the preservation of firearms is very similar to goa and are probably linked.

Yeah, Jews have a tendency to equate all trivial ******** to the Holocaust in the Bizzaro World!

here is a guy who will stay in the nra,but will reject goa out of hand because something does not fit perfectly with his agenda and because of a perceived insult about charleton heston.

No, there's your focus problem again, I said if you were representative of the goa I'd consider joining JPFO.

no wonder we are losing our gun rights.

Something tells me "we", meaning you could care less about "our" "gun rights".

 

[Norton]

i am not associated with gun owners alliance and im not responsible for everything they say

Then might I suggest that you PM Spot77, DD214 or myself and request a user name change to one that might not lead the rest of us to believe that?

and why should i have to get everything about my postings approved by people on this site anyway?

No one is suggesting that you should. The level of moderation on this forum is self-sustaining. The admin and the two moderators of this site rarely don their "official" hats and interfere with any discussion that is pertinent to the mission of this site.

no wonder we are losing our gun rights.

I'd suggest that you take a deep breath and consider how it looks to the 400+ members of this site when you come here with the user name "goa", post inflammatory remarks and advocate an organization that deliberately styles its website to look like the Gun Owners of America website. Its downright devious to say the least and plain ol' deception at worst.

May I ask if you even live in MD? If so, rather than questioning the pro-gun bonafides of the members of this board who have been amongst the most active advocates for 2nd amendment rights in this state, I'd suggest that you join us at working from within and reforming the system rather than trying to destroy the workings of arguably the most effective, if not also flawed, lobbying organization in the history of politics.

All are welcome here, but civil and rational discourse is the expectation...not the exception.

 

[DD214]

just how is stark an advocate for the brady campaign? i looked over the site thoroughly and i didnt get that.

I don't think he works for the Brady Bunch. I was using sarcasm to point out that he seems so bent on dividing the pro-gun lobby, that he appears to be an anti.

The regulars on this forum know that I am prone to use sarcasm to make a point. In honor of the newbies who may not know this, I have added a new smilie.

Behold, the sarcasm smilie!:

 

[goa]

reply to reform the nra

You were warned about your attitude. Take a week off.

Norton.

 

[K31]

You were warned about your attitude. Take a week off.

Norton.

Damn, somebody's got to pick up the slack while he's gone.

Ok, just until his return, here it is:

NRA bad.