Re: Garand vs Mini 14 vs SKS

[Chris]

I vote for Garand, that's what I own, out of the three. With M1 if you run out of ammo you can beat them to death with it. Now my preferred rifle is a Spikes "M4", now that really rocks. Chris

 

[54rndball]

I have two M1s. My dad and I bought them back in the '80s for about $100 a pop. They are great rifles but they are not cheap to feed. Even if you reload it is 30+ grains of powder, which is hard to find these days. I can see why people like the Chinese SKSs, but I am getting older and I really need a scope if I an going to shoot beyond 100 yds. I think I found a good source for a Mini-14. I have always like those and it seems to give you a lot of flexibility. For one thing, they shoot both the higher pressure mil-spec 5.56 mm round as well as the .223 Rem. Most commercial guns are not built to handle the military round. So I think I will get a Mini-14.

 

[Runamuck]

Plus you dont have to fool with corrosive ammo.

Just a question, not being disagreeable, but I thought I read somewhere that the Greek surplus 30-06 was corrosive. Please correct me if I am mistaken, it wont be the first time.

 

[stu929]

HXP is not corrosive. WWII era ammo was but HXP is good to go. And great reloadable brass as well.

 

[BigDaddy]

Just a question, not being disagreeable, but I thought I read somewhere that the Greek surplus 30-06 was corrosive. Please correct me if I am mistaken, it wont be the first time.

According to CMP it is not http://thecmp.org/Sales/ammo.htm

 

[Runamuck]

thanks, as the garand is next on my list, I have been trying to decide which one, already have the mini and sks and love them both

 

[Blacksmith101]

After you buy your first Garand you catch Garanditus and have to keep buying more.

 

[janklow]

you know, i would vote Mini-14 first if we're talking just having fun shooting the gun.
...but then i paid a lot less for my Mini-14 than i would have to to pick up a Garand.

 

[Magnumite]

"Who was talking about service rifles? The Mini 14 is not a service rifle..."

If one doesn't recognize at least two of the listed firearms as service rifles then perhaps they are in the wrong discussion. The Mini 14, okay, not a service rifle but still has been used frequently as a police carbine and certainly doesn't qualify as a precision varminter.


"When you pick up accuracy, you lose reliability, and vice versa. Everything is a trade off."

This after being 'informed' the SKS's being uber reliable are also MOA shooters? Under mass production time expedient guidelines? Battle field clearances no less. MOA I see has spread to fist or hand sized groups. That's cool. Had two, the Romanian shot about 4 MOA and the Norinco about 6. The Garand shoots typically shoots 3 MOA or a little more and has teased me with a couple near two MOA groups.

I am not dissing the SKS, I like 'em. But I accept them for what they are. I still have my Garand.

 

[aquaman]

"Who was talking about service rifles? The Mini 14 is not a service rifle..."

If one doesn't recognize at least two of the listed firearms as service rifles then perhaps they are in the wrong discussion. The Mini 14, okay, not a service rifle but still has been used frequently as a police carbine and certainly doesn't qualify as a precision varminter.


"When you pick up accuracy, you lose reliability, and vice versa. Everything is a trade off."

This after being 'informed' the SKS's being uber reliable are also MOA shooters? Under mass production time expedient guidelines? Battle field clearances no less. MOA I see has spread to fist or hand sized groups. That's cool. Had two, the Romanian shot about 4 MOA and the Norinco about 6. The Garand shoots typically shoots 3 MOA or a little more and has teased me with a couple near two MOA groups.

I am not dissing the SKS, I like 'em. But I accept them for what they are. I still have my Garand.

IIRC at least one country uses or used the Mini 14 as a service rifle. I want to say it was a central American country

 

[Magnumite]

I haven't heard that so I'll take your word for it. Interesting really.

 

[boss66tcode]

The mini 14 is also used in a number of correctional facility towers

 

[janklow]

I haven't heard that so I'll take your word for it. Interesting really.

Honduras, perhaps

 

[Scott7891]

The reason that the Chinese continued to shit them out concurrent with their type 56 rifles was due to the fact that while their front line troops were laying down automatic fire with their Type 56 rifles (AKMs) the rest of the troops would be slightly behind them with type 56 carbines (SKSs) taking aim carefully and making each shot count. They would not have continued to make the guns for so long had it not been greatly suited to it's adopted role.

The reason they kept the SKS in service was because:

A) The Chinese treated the AK like a submachine gun and never thought it accurate enough for front-line combat relegating it to officers. Thus the millions of AK's they made went overseas to fight the evil capitalists and the Soviet revisionists, not to their own troops but in relatively small numbers.

B) The Type 68, an SKS/AK hybrid, was a failure.

One of the reasons Vietnam won the first border war with China in 1979 was because they had the firepower and tactics of the AK on their side (plus experience fighting the French and Americans) whilst the Chinese infantry with their SKS/WW2 tactics were overwhelmed. The Chinese learned this lesson ramping up production of the Type 56 for their troops until the Type 81 matured to replace it.

The Mini14 with folding stock IS on the ban list.

One can still get a Mini-30 or 6.8 with a folding stock since the list only mentions the .223 version.

Just a question, not being disagreeable, but I thought I read somewhere that the Greek surplus 30-06 was corrosive. Please correct me if I am mistaken, it wont be the first time.

Korean surplus is the corrosive ammo.

IIRC at least one country uses or used the Mini 14 as a service rifle. I want to say it was a central American country

It was the U.K. under their Bermuda Regiment.

Central America was flooded with M1 Garands, M1 Carbines, AK's, FAL's, G3's, Galil's and other assorted hardware for free so why would they buy the Mini-14 when superior options were practically given to them for free or bought cheaply.

 

[Threeband]

...
...but then i paid a lot less for my Mini-14 than i would have to to pick up a Garand.

You do realize you can have a Service Grade Garand delivered to your front door for $649.95 total, don't you?

 

[Blacksmith101]

You do realize you can have a Service Grade Garand delivered to your front door for $649.95 total, don't you?

Or a CMP Special completely refurbished rifle with new barrel, new stock, and other parts refinished in your choice of caliber either.30-06 or .308. Shipped to your door in a hard case with new sling for the total price including shipping of $1,019.95.

 

[Magnumite]

^^^^ This looks more attactive than a new Baer 1911...just add a mag conversion kit someone mentioned.

 

[amoebicmagician]

How did we go from talking 1MOA to fist or hand size. A fist is probably 4MOA and a hand closer to 6MOA. My garands will all shoot easily within that with surplus HXP not handload or premium ammo. Additionally 223/7.62x39 do not belong in the same category ballistically as 06. Again using your analogy not surplus but other ammo with where 06 shines and can be used for anything in the U.S.

As for reliable is a garand an ak? I dont know I dont have an ak or sks but I have garands and they are very very reliable, powerful and a blast to shoot. Plus you dont have to fool with corrosive ammo.

I'm telling you I've not seen one that would not, we're not talking about best case scenarios here. So long as the gun did not have some sort of glaring imperfection they all shot as I have stated.

Seriously. Read my posts. Then re read them if you have to.

All the information is there.

 

[amoebicmagician]

I don't know man. The Hornady SST is pretty damn accurate and it performs better than any Russian Surplus I've seen.

Hmm, I didn't realize Hornady made steel cased ammo.

Everything else they make is gold, so I wouldn't be surprised if they put out an offering that was superior to Russian manufactured ammunition.

 

[amoebicmagician]

"Who was talking about service rifles? The Mini 14 is not a service rifle..."

If one doesn't recognize at least two of the listed firearms as service rifles then perhaps they are in the wrong discussion. The Mini 14, okay, not a service rifle but still has been used frequently as a police carbine and certainly doesn't qualify as a precision varminter.


"When you pick up accuracy, you lose reliability, and vice versa. Everything is a trade off."

This after being 'informed' the SKS's being uber reliable are also MOA shooters? Under mass production time expedient guidelines? Battle field clearances no less. MOA I see has spread to fist or hand sized groups. That's cool. Had two, the Romanian shot about 4 MOA and the Norinco about 6. The Garand shoots typically shoots 3 MOA or a little more and has teased me with a couple near two MOA groups.

I am not dissing the SKS, I like 'em. But I accept them for what they are. I still have my Garand.

If you will check my posts, I said with the best loads that the guns are not a hell of a lot worse than MOA.

With good tailored reloads and a scope, I stand by this 100%

I don't think the SKS is the most accurate rifle in the world, and I'm not trying to make it into something it is not.

I did not inform you that it was an MOA rifle, I gave a report of what it is capable of with handloads and a scope, despite it's loose tolerances and a design geared towards reliability.

I never stated it was an MOA rifle, or changed the definition of MOA to production of Fist sized groups. I repeat, again, that good rifles give the results I have explained, and that the bare mean average ones, so long as they do not have glaring defects, when shot with iron sights by a competent shooter, will do no worse than hand sized groups.

I really don't know why you feel the need to continue to debate something that is not a debate but an anecdotal statement of fact.

Seriously. Read.