Question: sb281 and SBR

[aab23c]

If I was going to build an SBR what is he shortest barrel I could get for a complete lower in the post 281 world?

 

[HumbleEinstein]

In a post 281 world, you can't build an SBR.

 

[Flipz]

In a post 281 world, you can't build an SBR.

WRONG! SB281 has no impact on NFA firearms. This has already been covered a million times. Stop posting misleading info.

If its an AR15 SBR the OP plans to build its perfectly legal to do so as long as he owns the lower prior to Oct 1st.

OP, it depends on caliber. The shortest commonly available 5.56mm upper would be 7.5". Theyre fun, but impractical. The shortest I would go is 10.5".

 

[swinokur]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

THIS

 

[armed ferret]

In a post 281 world, you can't build an SBR.

Your board name is very ironic, given the complete inaccuracy of this post.

 

[HumbleEinstein]

Your interpretation of the law is optimistic and incorrect. Sorry to break it to you.

 

[swinokur]

really? Please provide the cite.

 

[armed ferret]

Do tell, citing examples, how you arrived at a conclusion that differs from what members of this forum, including attorneys, have derived (to include statements made by management at MSP).

 

[swinokur]

I don't know who to attribute it to but the saying "Better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you the fool than to open it and remove all doubt" applies here.

 

[HumbleEinstein]

I'm not going to get into a debate with you. If you feel like you can do it then go for it. Someone asked a question and I answered in order to save a bunch of time, money, disappointment, or worst.

The fact is that if you don't have your SBR approved and in your possession by 10/1 it will not be lawful.

 

[swinokur]

Oh that's rich. I have a Form 4 at MSP right now and they said nothing about it being illegal after Oct 1, as MSP management has also stated is legal and some lawyers here have agreed with.

You didn't bother to provide the cite because there isn't one.

But keep on making inaccurate posts.

 

[occbrian]

Sbr falls under federal law. Not state. The law defines a rifle as having a barrel longer than 16", therefore.... None of sb281 impacts sbrs because they are neither rifles, or pistols per md state law.

Basically, sbr's don't exist in Md law... So it defaults to federal and NFA.

ETA- they are actually considered handguns, so they are not banned.

 

[swinokur]

Oh Brian, how can you tell Einstein he's wrong?

 

[HumbleEinstein]

It will all come down to the interpretation of the next AG. Who is that likely to be again? Ohhh, that's right.

I hope it all works out.

 

[swinokur]

No it won't MSP has already stated they are not affected. There is no AG interpretation required. SBR's are not affected by 281 in the least. You've been shown the reason but won't admit you're wrong.

"There are none so blind as those who wuill not see."

 

[HumbleEinstein]

Sbr falls under federal law. Not state. The law defines a rifle as having a barrel longer than 16", therefore.... None of sb281 impacts sbrs because they are neither rifles, or pistols per md state law.

Basically, sbr's don't exist in Md law... So it defaults to federal and NFA.

With all respect, you would do yourself a favor to read the law more carefully. SBRs fail the feature test. Come 10/1 they will be considered banned "copycat" weapons.

Misinformation on this forum certainly is a problem.

 

[Pinecone]

Like the FFLs are some of the meetings that claimed that MSP and BATF were WRONG.

Oh well, there are always a few.

Hey Einstein, want to put bucks on that?

Oh, and you stated that after Oct 1 SBR would not be legal to build. Then later backpedal to that with a NEW AG they MIGHT be illegal to build. Which is it?

 

[swinokur]

The feature test requires the firearm to be a center fired rifle. SBR's are not rifles.

From 281

10 SENATE BILL 281


(I) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT CAN 1
ACCEPT A DETACHABLE MAGAZINE AND HAS ANY TWO OF THE FOLLOWING: 2

1. A PISTOL GRIP THAT PROTRUDES 3
CONSPICUOUSLY BENEATH THE ACTION OF THE WEAPON; 4

2. A THUMBHOLE STOCK; 5

3. A FOLDING OR TELESCOPING STOCK; 6

4. 3. 2. A GRENADE LAUNCHER OR FLARE LAUNCHER; 7
OR 8

5. 4. 3. A FLASH SUPPRESSOR; OR 9

6. 5. A FORWARD PISTOL GRIP; 10

(II) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS A 11
FIXED MAGAZINE WITH THE CAPACITY TO ACCEPT MORE THAN 10 ROUNDS; 12

(III) A SEMIAUTOMATIC CENTERFIRE RIFLE THAT HAS AN 13
OVERALL LENGTH OF LESS THAN 30 29 INCHES;

You should quit spouting total BS.

 

[Pinecone]

With all respect, you would do yourself a favor to read the law more carefully. SBRs fail the feature test. Come 10/1 they will be considered banned "copycat" weapons.

Your misinterpretation comes from the fact that an SBR is NOT a rifle. It is a weapon DERIVED from a rifle.

And since it is not a rifle, it does not fall under the copy cat feature test.

 

[squirrels]

Oh lord, this again.

If you have the lower pre-October, you MAY be able to SBR it post-October. The law as written does not forbid "manufacture".

However, I would not be surprised if you caught some flak from MSP (whatever they say) for saying you're "building an AR15" on a Form 1...that would constitute possessing a weapon that you did not possess prior to Oct 1. You could potentially argue that you did indeed possess the weapon (the lower is considered the "weapon") prior to Oct 1. I think it remains to be seen how they would address it. Just expect a red flag to be raised if you send something to MSP saying you want to build an AR15, and be pleasantly surprised if they don't.

BATFE also demands that the weapon you intend to build is legal in your home state. That may also require some "splainin'".

But yes, if you own the lower pre-ban, there may be a legal path to making it into an SBR.



As for buying one on a Form 4...good luck with that. The AR15, SBR or not, is banned by name. It doesn't matter whether it's a "rifle", "pistol", "SBR", "SBS", or "AOW"...the explicitly-banned list says "firearms". Even if this "SBR isn't a rifle" BS is true, an SBR is still a "firearm".

§ 5-101(p) Assault weapon.- "Assault weapon" means any of the following specific
firearms or their copies regardless of which company produced and manufactured that
firearm:

(15) Colt AR-15, CAR-15, and all imitations except Colt AR-15 Sporter H-BAR rifle

So if you don't have the lower after Oct 1, you WILL NOT be able to legally purchase an AR15 in MD, regardless of the barrel length, regardless of whether it's an AR15 rifle, pistol, or "miscellaneous". And good luck finding an FFL (or a BATFE agent) who will disagree.

You'd have better luck trying to SBR something not on the list...a SCAR or maybe one of those unregulated SiG rifles, or an AR10-style. Maybe an "HBAR sporter"...but that's debatable. But then you run into the "copycat" law...which includes centerfire semi-auto rifles with OAL <29" and "banned features".

Everyone here is saying a "short-barrel rifle is not a rifle". Which is the most effing retarded thing I've ever heard. I would not attempt to use this defense in court without an FOIA from MSP or the AG, or without case precedent...and I'm willing to believe that most of the people on here spouting this nonsense wouldn't want to do so either...they just want to convince themselves that it's still "OK" to build SBR AR15s so they don't have to acknowledge how this state just raped them of their Constitutional rights.

This whole thing is a result of some general statement made by MSP/BATFE that "SBRs will still be legal" taken out of context and paraded to mean that "ALL SBRs will still be legal, regardless of whether they are also assault weapons under MD law". Yes, you will be able to still have some kind of SBR in Maryland, but I don't think that means the kinds of SBRs we're talking about here. (AR15 SBRs)

Please, show me a stamped Form 4 for an AR15 SBR after October 1st. I hope someone DOES prove me wrong, because that pretty much loopholes in every AR15 there is. Anyone who can get approved for that can get themselves a 14.5" SBR through NFA and put whatever upper they please on it.

But if you go into court with that, "SBRs don't exist in MD" bullsh*t, without a paper-trail to cover your arse, you get what you deserve.

Have fun.

I am halfway tempted to write BATFE or the AG and ask them, "is a short-barrel rifle a rifle?", just for the lulz.