Purchasing a copy cat weapon at a MD FFL - Legal repercussions

[tc617]

A friend and I had this debate today;

If you purchase a firearm cash and carry from a licenses Maryland FFL gun shop (Lets say that the firearm was a Tavor without a permanently attached muzzle device and it was <29" OAL), and later it is determined that this firearm was illegal to offer for sale because it met the definition of a copy cat weapon under FSA2013, who would the MSP charge?

1. The FFL for offering for sale and selling a copy cat firearm within the State of Maryland.
2. The customer because he took possession/purchased a banned copy cat weapon.
3. Both.

He said that the firearm would get confiscated an the FFL would be charged. I said the firearm would be confiscated and that both parties would be charged.

How do you think this would play out?

 

[clandestine]

I say 3. The MD Politicians wont pass up an opportunity to make examples.

 

[tc617]

FYI, we had this debate after walking out of a Maryland gun shop that is selling that particular firearm cash and carry. I verified that the is was in deed the 16.5" barrel Tavor and the OAL was less than 29".

 

[NateIU10]

I say 3. The MD Politicians wont pass up an opportunity to make examples.

MSP has stated that, because of the "knowing violation" requirement for violations of the law, the onus would fall on the dealer. They have stated that the incorrect determination would be discussed with the FFL, MSP would not seek charges against a purchaser who purchased in good faith.

So, could both be charged? Yes. Likely? No idea, but I would lean towards no.

 

[NateIU10]

I also think the OAL measurement could be sucessfully argued to include non perm attached muzzle devices and it would not be a copycat.

 

[clandestine]

OAL is measured with the stock opened/extended if capable and the muzzle device removed if its not permanent. FYI, this applies to semi auto centerfire rifles only, from my understanding. BATFE has ruled on this on a federal level, logic would say the same guidelines apply absent a different interpretation from the MSP or A.G.

Any shop selling a centerfire semiautomatic rifle with a removable muzzle device best be sure its longer than 29" if there isn't a Pre-10/1/2013 P.O. weapon then its probably not ok.

 

[tc617]

I also think the OAL measurement could be sucessfully argued to include non perm attached muzzle devices and it would not be a copycat.

Even when including the A2 style flash hider, the OAL was approximately 27".

 

[clandestine]

Nate would understand the law way more than I. He is an Attorney.

I know that I would not want to have that gun in my possession.

 

[coopermania]

Nate would understand the law way more than I. He is an Attorney.

I know that I would not want to have that gun in my possession.

Yep, The attorneys are always right.
If I lived in Md I also would not want that firearm in my possession.

 

[F8L_Funnel]

Well, you sorta of answered your question with the hypothetical. If it was determined AFTER, then wouldn't that only affect sales going forward?

 

[clandestine]

I think the MSP is screwing dealers with that interpretation.

Lets say Im a FFL and I sell a copycat gun that has a perm muzzle device or some kind of stock extension. If the Owner modifies said gun after the fact to a BANNED configuration and claims it was SOLD that way, and gets caught somehow. Well its not so great for the dealer.

 

[tc617]

I think the MSP is screwing dealers with that interpretation.

Lets say Im a FFL and I sell a copycat gun that has a perm muzzle device or some kind of stock extension. If the Owner modifies said gun after the fact to a BANNED configuration and claims it was SOLD that way, and gets caught somehow. Well its not so great for the dealer.

I never thought about people getting caught and trying to blame the FLL for their misdeeds. I guess the FFL could cover themselves with description of the firearm on the purchase order/receipt, "Serial number XXXXX with 16.5" barrel and permanently attached muzzle device and 1" butt plate extension. OAL = 29.75" and then have the customer sign a copy of the receipt.

 

[NateIU10]

FYI, we had this debate after walking out of a Maryland gun shop that is selling that particular firearm cash and carry. I verified that the is was in deed the 16.5" barrel Tavor and the OAL was less than 29".

Would you mind PMing me the name of the shop?

I think the MSP is screwing dealers with that interpretation.

Lets say Im a FFL and I sell a copycat gun that has a perm muzzle device or some kind of stock extension. If the Owner modifies said gun after the fact to a BANNED configuration and claims it was SOLD that way, and gets caught somehow. Well its not so great for the dealer.

Agreed. This whole thing is so hard to enforce, it is ludicrous.

 

[Doctor_M]

Maryland jurisprudence when it comes to technicalities on gun law…

 

[Blacksmith101]

The buyer should ask for a jury trial. A good lawyer will convince at least 1 jury member the buyer relied on the expertise of the Licensed Federal Firearms Dealer to interpret Maryland's confusing gun laws.

 

[Vile Shadow]

The buyer should ask for a jury trial. A good lawyer will convince at least 1 jury member the buyer relied on the expertise of the Licensed Federal Firearms Dealer to interpret Maryland's confusing gun laws.

Well, that sure as hell wouldn't require a lawyer.

 

[Biggfoot44]

And FFL's AND buyers become intimidated from selling/ purchasing (whatever).

 

[zoostation]

And don't forget, it's not only MSP who can decide to charge. Nothing prevents any other local/county/etc. agency with jurisdiction from charging if they choose to.

 

[tc617]

A little hint to
MDS members as to which gun shop I
May be talking about
Out of all of the Maryland FFL's,

Let's say that this
One has a history of
Giving customer's information to the MSP.

 

[teratos]

A little hint to
MDS members as to which gun shop I
May be talking about
Out of all of the Maryland FFL's,

Let's say that this
One has a history of
Giving customer's information to the MSP.