Pulled Over by MSP/Guns in Car

[Doctor_M]

What is a JBT

JPO... in forum vernacular, it is "Jack Booted Thugs"... a term I dislike, but since you asked, that is it's meaning.

Cheers.

 

[Skins_Brew]

Don't you guys know that a majority of cops are 2A supporters?

 

[Second Amendment]

Perhaps a joke but needlessly argumentative otherwise. We need to work with msp to reach an understanding. Or we need the court to settle this. One is cheaper. One is final. I say we can try the cheap one first.

Really? So serious.

 

[Mr H]

Don't you guys know that a majority of cops are 2A supporters?

We do, and they are...

But their boss' bosses are beholden to Analpolis.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I'm not Aqua ; but my take on what he was saying :

None of it has ever been about actual safety , or ability to handle handguns. It's only purpose is to harass , and errode the rights of Citizens. If LE had to endure the same pointless harassment , there would both be better knowledge and understanding of the laws , and would likely have more rank & file LE being vocal about the pointlessness and inanity.

Yes , we probably still have a majority of pro- gun rights LE. But 30-40yrs ago , it was overwhelming , near unanimus.

 

[TimG]

ALL active officers go through much more extensive training than HQL applicants. In DC, at least a full qualification twice a year and when I was in Spec Ops, 4 times a year. This includes a full morning of classroom and all afternoon on the range. A rookie undergoes 3 weeks of extensive classroom before he is allowed to carry. As a retiree, I have to qualify EVERY year under LEOSA. Again, this includes morning classroom and a full afternoon on the range requiring minimal scores for day light and NIGHT firing. I have to pay for this out of my own pocket. THIS IS THE REASON THAT WE DO NOT NEED AN HQL. As a retiree, I still have an 8 day waiting period and can not purchase more than one handgun per month, just like anyone else. Once I retired, I no longer had the privilege of carrying a sawed off shotgun or machine gun. I resent that someone thinks we need a HQL when we have requirements that far exceed the HQL.

So my question to you would be, if myself as a law abiding citizen went through the same process as you, why should I not be issued a Maryland Concealed Carry Permit? In return, if the State requires me as a law abiding citizen to have a HQL, you as a retired LEO should be required to obtain one also. I also did not see in your annual certification requirements under LEOSA a background investigation. As you know, a majority of LEO's are law abiding, upstanding citizens, but some do go bad. I fully respect and thank you for your years of service, but there is a double standard in Maryland.

 

[Doctor_M]

this!!! so much this!!!

coming from a family that is in LE, myself not being a LEO they all tell me the same thing..."don't give us a reason to pull you over." I will tell you this..there is a difference between "active member" and "supporter/booster" stickers.

OK... the million dollar question... is there any LEO out there who can't find a reason to pull over someone if they want to? Just asking. Follow someone long enough, and their speedometer is going to edge over the limit as they coast down a hill... make someone nervous by riding their tail for miles, and they will probably screw up enough to light them up. Whenever I have a LEO on my bumper, I am hypervigialant about speed... 1 mile below posted exactly to the best of my ability... they usually stay there long enough to run my plates, see nothing, and they pass me at warp speed.

Not saying that being a law-abiding and attentive driver won't DRAMATICALLY reduce your chances of getting pulled over (plus wearing seat-belts... staying off the phone, etc.), but if you peak someone's interest for some reason, they will find a way to pull you over. I've even heard of some LEOs pulling over someone to tell them "how courteous a driver they were and give them an ataboy"... still a chance to peak in the car and sniff.

Oh, and another question about PC... the smell thing. How is that proven/documented if at all. Officer says he smelled burnt herbs... is that instant probable cause? Anyone can say they smelled something, how does one defend against that? I don't even allow cigarettes in my car, but if for some reason, a LEO said he smelt something funny and had PC to search me, I don't think I would have any recourse. Again... no accusations or implications here, just trying to figure out how this stuff works.

 

[Brooklyn]

Really? So serious.

Well like I said I was not sure... this is MDshooters after all. One thing I am sure of respectful dialog with the police can't hurt. We need to understand them, and frankly they also need to understand us..

I do not want to see the kind of animosity that now exists in NYC between the police and the public.. I watched it happen... I was involved in the comunity and could not prevent it. We had the cop haters and the cop lovers... what we needed was an understanding.. problems can't be ignored.. nor can we impose too much restrictions on the police... public discussion is how to get there..

I am so serious because I think the stakes are high. NYC is lost.. don't want that here..

 

[Second Amendment]

I TL/DR'd it, so maybe it's been discussed ad-nauseum, but does anyone else have the slightest bit of concern about the whole "REGISTERED" part of this story?

Regulated firearm transfers aren't supposed to be a "registration" system...cops aren't supposed to be able to look up in a database who owns what kind of gun. Yet it seems that that's exactly what it is.

So when Gov. Brown or Gov. Gansler decides to carry on the legacy that O'Malley left behind, they will know exactly what to confiscate from whom.

As I posted earlier, this IS the case. My policeman friend read off every registered gun I own. And the scarry part is, he also had on the list some guns I've long since sold/traded to GUN SHOPS.

 

[44man]

I TL/DR'd it, so maybe it's been discussed ad-nauseum, but does anyone else have the slightest bit of concern about the whole "REGISTERED" part of this story?

Regulated firearm transfers aren't supposed to be a "registration" system...cops aren't supposed to be able to look up in a database who owns what kind of gun. Yet it seems that that's exactly what it is.

So when Gov. Brown or Gov. Gansler decides to carry on the legacy that O'Malley left behind, they will know exactly what to confiscate from whom.

didnt hey get someone to admit that the state of md is keeping registration paperwork last year when they were in session in assapolis? somehow i thought that came up and someone admitted to it.

 

[StantonCree]

OK... the million dollar question... is there any LEO out there who can't find a reason to pull over someone if they want to? Just asking. Follow someone long enough, and their speedometer is going to edge over the limit as they coast down a hill... make someone nervous by riding their tail for miles, and they will probably screw up enough to light them up. Whenever I have a LEO on my bumper, I am hypervigialant about speed... 1 mile below posted exactly to the best of my ability... they usually stay there long enough to run my plates, see nothing, and they pass me at warp speed.

Not saying that being a law-abiding and attentive driver won't DRAMATICALLY reduce your chances of getting pulled over (plus wearing seat-belts... staying off the phone, etc.), but if you peak someone's interest for some reason, they will find a way to pull you over. I've even heard of some LEOs pulling over someone to tell them "how courteous a driver they were and give them an ataboy"... still a chance to peak in the car and sniff.

Oh, and another question about PC... the smell thing. How is that proven/documented if at all. Officer says he smelled burnt herbs... is that instant probable cause? Anyone can say they smelled something, how does one defend against that? I don't even allow cigarettes in my car, but if for some reason, a LEO said he smelt something funny and had PC to search me, I don't think I would have any recourse. Again... no accusations or implications here, just trying to figure out how this stuff works.

To answer your last paragraph......that's kind of a stupid question.....If I don't take a picture of your cracked windshield does that mean it didn't happen? If you don't have a black eye but claim the victim in assault does that mean it didn't happen. There is the possibility for abuse.....just like with anything.....but until you invent a particalizer that is admissible in court their going to continue to go with officers observations.

You defend against t in court. I've lost cases because the jury didn't think I could smell the weed that was bagged up. Hint for all you smokers out there, the new "loud" is stinky as hell and we can smell it from a mile away.

 

[teratos]

As I posted earlier, this IS the case. My policeman friend read off every registered gun I own. And the scarry part is, he also had on the list some guns I've long since sold/traded to GUN SHOPS.

They keep track of what you bought. They are not so diligent about keeping track of what you sold. Heard that from MSP.

 

[Doctor_M]

MPDC,

I thought there were no stupid questions :-) Nahhh... I'm a professor, so I know better. Didn't mean to be stupid, it just seems that a crack windshield is very evident, as is a midget in the trunk. Smell... unless you have a gas chromatograph in your car, is completely subjective and unverifiable.

 

[ericoak]

To answer your last paragraph......that's kind of a stupid question.....If I don't take a picture of your cracked windshield does that mean it didn't happen?

He was arguing that it is something that is impossible to disprove. If you as an officer lied about the windshield, he could in fact prove it wasn't cracked. Same with "expired tags" (myself and my friends have been pulled over for that) that when we checked after the stop wouldn't expire for another couple months. Steve McNair got off of a DUI because the officers claimed he was serving across lines but when they looked at the dash cam footage it turned out he wasn't.

But how do you prove that someone didn't smell something? I would say it is more similar to proving you weren't speeding. Pretty hard to do.

 

[StantonCree]

I thought there were no stupid questions :-) Nahhh... I'm a professor, so I know better. Didn't mean to be stupid, it just seams that a crack windshield is very evident, as is a midget in the trunk. Smell... unless you have a gas chromatograph in your car, is completely subjective and unverifiable.

The smell of weed is common knowledge and although I see your point, the opportunity for abuse, everything has that opportunity.

 

[Second Amendment]

They keep track of what you bought. They are not so diligent about keeping track of what you sold. Heard that from MSP.

So, does that mean that if a gun is traded and sold numerous times, that the MSP shows it owned by multiple owners? That's ridiculous. One of the ones he read off was a Mak 90 that I sold 15 years ago among some revolvers I sold 8 years ago.

 

[StantonCree]

He was arguing that it is something that is impossible to disprove. If you as an officer lied about the windshield, he could in fact prove it wasn't cracked. Same with "expired tags" (myself and my friends have been pulled over for that) that when we checked after the stop wouldn't expire for another couple months. Steve McNair got off of a DUI because the officers claimed he was serving across lines but when they looked at the dash cam footage it turned out he wasn't.

But how do you prove that someone didn't smell something? I would say it is more similar to proving you weren't speeding. Pretty hard to do.

Oh I understand boss trust me but back to my previous statement, you beat it in court. We don't carry particle sniffers with analyzes so the courts take it on face value that a cop (who runs into drugs semi regularly) would be able to articulate the odor of marijuana.

 

[StantonCree]

So, does that mean that if a gun is traded and sold numerous times, that the MSP shows it owned by multiple owners? That's ridiculous. One of the ones he read off was a Mak 90 that I sold 15 years ago among some revolvers I sold 8 years ago.

No I ran you through the database and it shows you have over 300 registered weapons. BTW we monitor all cameras everywhere so next time you buy a shovel, ski mask, and gloves know I'm watching. Also who uses a discover car to pay for those items?

 

[swinokur]

If you sell the gun out of state, MSP has no record of the sale. I sold my G30 to a friend in Atlanta through his FFL. As far as MSP records, they think I still own it. I shipped it directly to the GA FFL, that was legal. So it's not even in a MD FFL's bound book as being shipped elsewhere.

 

[teratos]

So, does that mean that if a gun is traded and sold numerous times, that the MSP shows it owned by multiple owners? That's ridiculous. One of the ones he read off was a Mak 90 that I sold 15 years ago among some revolvers I sold 8 years ago.

They don't take things off your list when you sell them. They just add them when you buy them. It's not a record of what you have, it's a record of what you have purchased.