Primary Arms Scopes

[Kingjamez]

I have the Gen 2 1-6x as well. Seems decently made from what I can tell. It is my first magnified optic though and is taking some getting used to. Up close, I haven't found it to be as fast or accurate as my Eotech, but I am sure that is 95% user induced.

It won't be as fast up close as your EoTech, don't expect it to be, no long tubed 1x can be. It is however, as fast or faster than irons at 1x.

As far as accuracy goes, 1x ain't for shootin groups, it's for hitting things fast. If you want accuracy, the 1-6x at 6x will destroy the EoTech.

-Jim

 

[fidelity]

This video has a very brief comparison of the Primary 1-6x (at 1x) with a holographic red dot ... although obviously a subjective comparison, the red dot was a bit faster for the guy on video ...

http://youtu.be/CbL_TVmYEPo

Although many of these will primarily be range toys (like mine), with the right mount, one could always put a reflex sight on top.

I got the Primary 1-6x last week (from AIM Surplus of all places). Glass wasn't as clear as my nicest Nikon, but certainly close to a middle of the pack Nikon, and the illuminated reticle was really sweet (bright, easy to read in different conditions, and the background black reticle sharp when not illuminated). Eager to test it at the range.

 

[slybarman]

Did you get s gen 1 or gen 2. The glass of the gen 2 is supposedly much clearer.

 

[Pinecone]

You should probably look up "milliradian" and how it applies to reticles before claiming all reticles are only for a single load or weather condition.

BDC reticles ARE for a single load or atmospheric conditions.

Milliradian or Mil is only a system of angular measurement. Just like MOA or IPHY. Has NOTHING to with the BDC function. 1 Mil = 3.43 MOA = 3.6 IPHY.

Just changing from a 175 SMK to a 168 SMK (2600 fps, 1.9 inch scope height above bore) changes the drop at 500 yards from 61.3 inches (3.4 mils) to 63.9 inches (3.6 mils)

Changing the temp from 40 to 90 degrees changes the 175 from 62.9 (3.5 mils) to 60.9 (3.4 mils)

Or going from sea level to 8000 foot elevation (same temp), 61.3 inches (3.4 mils) to 55.9 inches (3.1 mils).

Not huge differences for each change, but add them up and you go from 55.6 inches (3.1 mils - 175 SMK at 8000 feet 90F) to 65.9 inches (3.7 mils - 168 SMK at sea level 40F).

10 inches is a hefty miss.

I can give you the drops in MOA or IPHY also, or just divide the Mils by 3.43 for MOA or 3.6 for IPHY. The differences will stay the same.

 

[Pinecone]

This isn't actually true. You simply need to know what the BDC marks correspond to on other loads. A good example is the PA 2.5x optic:
http://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_Arms_2_5X_Compact_Scope_PAC2_5X_p/pac2.5x.htm

Look at the pictures of the reticle. The "koala of death" works intuitively with a bunch of loads, including 115gr 9mm. Remember, most BDC scopes are about shooting fast and hitting man-sized targets, not about putting in tiny little groups... as long as the BDC is close, you're generally alright.

Now, you might complain that your load doesn't match up quite as nice. In that case, use a cheat sheet... you know, like all the guys with mil-mil scopes do. I am totally sold on using FFP BDC scopes, and wouldn't mount anything else on a fighting rifle. I'd save the mil scopes for a bench gun or other such range toy.

It depends on the use. AR platform for closer work, BDC is close enough.

But on a .308 that can be used to range out to 1200 yards, then close enough is a miss.

And using a cheat sheet like you say for a BDC means using hold overs/unders, and you can EASILY mess that up.

 

[erwos]

It depends on the use. AR platform for closer work, BDC is close enough.

By closer work, you mean "further than the effective combat range of the rifle", right? Hell, the guy who did the PA scope was nailing 600yd shots with their reticle. Let me also point out that there are no ranges > 500yds in this state, and most of them are 100-200yds. For 99% of shooters on this board, talking about thousand yard shots is basically a pipe dream.

But on a .308 that can be used to range out to 1200 yards, then close enough is a miss.

No one is seriously proposing using a BDC reticle for 1200+ yard shots, which is something I alluded to in a previous post. You want a sniper rifle that's hitting at a thousand plus yards, by all means, buy a mil or MOA scope.

And using a cheat sheet like you say for a BDC means using hold overs/unders, and you can EASILY mess that up.

And using mils is a gigantic PITA to learn, and you can still screw it up in use.

I should also point out that there are some BDC scopes like the PFI RR-Evos that also have mils on them. This is not an either-or situation by definition.

 

[Kingjamez]

I would also point out that the ACSS reticle is not designed to punch little holes in paper. It's designed around torso size steel targets that one would see in practical competitions, or in real life (God forbid). In this designed use case I would argue that the extreme case (who goes from sea level to 8000' without a rezero?) 10" difference at 500 yards outlined above doesn't matter much if all you care about is a hit on a torso and you aimed center mass.

In fact I'd say the example above is a great case FOR BDC.


-Jim

 

[fidelity]

Did you get s gen 1 or gen 2. The glass of the gen 2 is supposedly much clearer.

Gen 2

 

[slybarman]

Given the limited availability, I am kind of surprised a reseller had a Gen 2 to sell.

 

[Pinecone]

You can enjoy your BDC reticles. And when you find yourself on a longer range (many of them in adjoining states), you will see the difference.

And how is learning mils hard to do? You run a ballstics calculator (many choices on smart phones) or JBM online and get your mil correction for each range. Then dial in that number of mils.

People DO get hung up on converting mils to inches or what ever, but there is NO reason to do that. You dial in the mils for correction. Inches drop does not matter.

And if you are correcting for a miss, you use the reticle to measure the correction. Which is why one of the MOST important things, is to have your scope turrets and reticle match. Mils/Mils or MOA/MOA or IPHY/IPHY

 

[fidelity]

Given the limited availability, I am kind of surprised a reseller had a Gen 2 to sell.

As were these guys on Calguns ...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=961007

The PA product number on my scope from AIM seems to match the Gen 2, and AIM links to Gen 2 videos from their website. PA might have a contractual obligation to provide them with a certain number of units before a specified date. When AIM has inventory (twice in the last month), they were also shipping for free.

 

[slybarman]

As were these guys on Calguns ...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=961007

The PA product number on my scope from AIM seems to match the Gen 2, and AIM links to Gen 2 videos from their website. PA might have a contractual obligation to provide them with a certain number of units before a specified date. When AIM has inventory (twice in the last month), they were also shipping for free.

Interesting. I'll remember that for next time.

 

[slybarman]

Not a great picture, but here is mine mounted up.

 

[fidelity]

Interesting. I'll remember that for next time.

They also have a Primary Arms IP forum. The 1-6x designer, Dimitri, has a thread on the scope here ...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=899276

Haven't looked, but PA might have something similar at arf.

Not a great picture, but here is mine mounted up.

Nice streamlined mount. I got this Burris ...

http://www.slickguns.com/product/burris-ar-pepr-qd-mount-30mm-410342-5999-after-coupon-30mm

But the quick releases feel a bit dodgy. Not feeling bad because I got the above deal. Have seen the following recommended ...

http://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/view/product/298/

but would have to overcome my inner cheapo (esp as the optic is $270).

 

[Whitey]

They also have a Primary Arms IP forum. The 1-6x designer, Dimitri, has a thread on the scope here ...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=899276

Haven't looked, but PA might have something similar at arf.




Nice streamlined mount. I got this Burris ...

http://www.slickguns.com/product/burris-ar-pepr-qd-mount-30mm-410342-5999-after-coupon-30mm

But the quick releases feel a bit dodgy. Not feeling bad because I got the above deal. Have seen the following recommended ...

http://www.americandefensemanufacturing.com/view/product/298/

but would have to overcome my inner cheapo (esp as the optic is $270).

The American Defense mounts are light as hell, and the locking quick detach levers are far better than any quick detach I have ever used. Granted i have never used a LaRue, GG&G, Etc. before. You definitely get what you pay for. and the AD-Recon mounts were nicely discounted by PA when you bundled with the scope.

 

[armed ferret]

I have an ADM mount and love it. Will probably end up with 1-2 more in the next year or so.

 

[INMY01TA]

I'd skip this scope. If money is an issue an SWFA fixed scope is the way to go.

Let me also point out that there are no ranges > 500yds in this state

Actually there are. 600 yard and 1000 yard ranges at Ft Meade. I'll be on the 600 yards this Saturday.

 

[erwos]

Actually there are. 600 yard and 1000 yard ranges at Ft Meade. I'll be on the 600 yards this Saturday.

True. But not open frequently, and not accessible to most folks.

 

[Kingjamez]

I'd skip this scope. If money is an issue an SWFA fixed scope is the way to go.


Actually there are. 600 yard and 1000 yard ranges at Ft Meade. I'll be on the 600 yards this Saturday.

There is no 1000 yard range at Ft. Meade.

On another note: The ACSS 2.5x is quickly becoming one of my favorites. The glass is GREAT and the "Koala of Death" ACSS reticle lines up nicely with 5.56, 9mm, and 300BLK. I may have to buy another one.

-Jim

 

[armed ferret]

There is no 1000 yard range at Ft. Meade.

Well there is one, but it's been closed for years due to the "UXO threat". Whatever that's supposed to mean.