Petition for Concealed Carry for Veterans

[Gryphon]

I understand Minuteman's argument I just disagree with him. His position keeps focusing on "who" whereas the real issue is actually "when." I don't have a problem with vets getting permits, and to suggest otherwise would be plain silly. I also don't oppose them by refraining from signing. I decline because my rights are no less of a priority than theirs, and I see no strategic benefit from splitting the community into small factions.

 

[navycraig]

You're retired Navy...have you been a target of any of these "hate groups"? Your comment, "hate groups" that despise the military should = G&S, is reaching, but why not apply and state this as your G&S if you are seriously convinced you and most veterans are just as much a target as retired LE. They can only say no. When I applied with my G&S I was very skeptical that I would get a permit, but I took the chance knowing I might get denied. Your comment about us "average Joe's that have figured out how to work the system to get their permit" kind of shows that you have contempt for those of us that have done what was required by MD to get our permits. We didn't work the system, we just read the instructions and then followed them.

No, I have not been a target, but I fail to see where you think my statement is reaching. Certainly, and thankfully, in our current culture we are far more likely to get a "thank you for your service" than the unpleasant alternative of being bashed and harassed because we served in the military. Because it is less frequent does not mean that it does not exist. I did apply and I was denied.
So, lets define what is suitable as risk. A retired LE receives a threat, say once every 5 years. Is that enough or should it need to be once every six months, once a month? Rhetorical. No answer needed. The point is, it's subjective and not measurable.
You stated elsewhere that your permit is based on threats. To me, if the threats were serious enough to justify you getting a permit, the person making the threats should be in jail. Hell, I was a bouncer and kicked many of guys out of the bar where I worked. I would often times receive threats based on that, but they were drunk and only once did one of them come back when sober and make a veiled threat that related back to the bouncing. Meh.
No, I ABSOLUTELY do not hold any contempt for anyone who has gone through the wickets of getting their permit (color me jealous if you'd like, but this is not about that). What bugs me is that these same "classes" of people who have used the loopholes in the may issue system are the same people saying, all for one, one for all. Really? Okay, if you feel that way, make a statement and turn in your permit and refuse to apply again until the system is fixed. All for one, one for all, right?
I'm not stupid enough to think that anyone is going to do that and I would consider them stupid if they did. I just wish folks would not preach about not creating a class of people when they themselves are part of a class of people.
Lastly, you and many others did not work the system, but that does not mean the system is not workable. I simply choose to not be dishonest enough to work it (lie) like I would need to to qualify. As I mentioned previously, I had a guy who offered to help me get my permit. He was going to have me do it just like he got his and when I heard how that was I declined.

 

[ericahls]

What bugs me is that these same "classes" of people who have used the loopholes in the may issue system are the same people saying, all for one, one for all. Really? Okay, if you feel that way, make a statement and turn in your permit and refuse to apply again until the system is fixed. All for one, one for all, right?.

Well I am the "class" of person who got his permit by using the business person "loophole" and I have made a statement PUBLICLY, here is a link to my testimony in Annapolis about how ridiculous I think the system is.

http://youtu.be/vtjDcmZyFLY

I have maintained ALL along that the permitting scheme in this state is broken and I put my money where my mouth is.

 

[Blaster229]

If it makes anyone feel any better, I haven't carried in a few weeks.

 

[BlackBart]

If it makes anyone feel any better, I haven't carried in a few weeks.

Well you ARE healing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0

 

[Blaster229]

Well you ARE healing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0

Same leg too LOL Actually thinking about it, I am pretty sure I haven't carried twice since June.

 

[BlackBart]

Same leg too LOL Actually thinking about it, I am pretty sure I haven't carried twice since June.

Are you up and about yet............. more or less?

 

[Blaster229]

Are you up and about yet............. more or less?

Yes. Hobbling around crutchless finally. Thanks for asking. going to PT and working on flexibility. Strength training around Feb.. Have a terrible, what I think non PT related pain in the knee. Getting another MRI as soon as it gets approved. Doc thinks possible meniscus tear. We shall see. Starting to peruse Fed employment attorneys now, just in case. Doc says this is a year recovery and work's tolerance is about a year wanting people to "make a decision". And since there is no other job they can place me in, a medical retirement may be imminent. 7 years early.

 

[BlackBart]

Yes. Hobbling around crutchless finally. Thanks for asking. going to PT and working on flexibility. Strength training around Feb.. Have a terrible, what I think non PT related pain in the knee. Getting another MRI as soon as it gets approved. Doc thinks possible meniscus tear. We shall see. Starting to peruse Fed employment attorneys now, just in case. Doc says this is a year recovery and work's tolerance is about a year wanting people to "make a decision". And since there is no other job they can place me in, a medical retirement may be imminent. 7 years early.

Yeouch! That's harsh. Don't know about what you have BUT if it's anything like shoulder operation therapy it's pure torture. Therapist are good BUT moving something that was just operated on is agony.

If they operated on terrorist and sent them to a rough therapist........ they would spill their guts out.

 

[Blaster229]

Yeouch! That's harsh. Don't know about what you have BUT if it's anything like shoulder operation therapy it's pure torture. Therapist are good BUT moving something that was just operated on is agony.

If they operated on terrorist and sent them to a rough therapist........ they would spill their guts out.

I dunno. I had a cortisone shot in my heel one time. I think I'd rather have an injection into my eyeball.

 

[navycraig]

Well I am the "class" of person who got his permit by using the business person "loophole" and I have made a statement PUBLICLY, here is a link to my testimony in Annapolis about how ridiculous I think the system is.

http://youtu.be/vtjDcmZyFLY

I have maintained ALL along that the permitting scheme in this state is broken and I put my money where my mouth is.

Awesome testimony. Thank you.

 

[Indiana Jones]

I can see both sides of this. I can understand how people whine that this is unfair and everyone should have the right. Totally understand it. I can also accept the fact that if miraculously vets did get CCW that means more guns on the streets in the right hands which makes us ALL safer including our families. It is a catch 22. I would be willing to forego my selfishness where nobody carries, to have some good guys carrying around me. MD needs to stop the crime, the animals are getting out of control. Would be a step in the right direction at least. But like I said I see both sides here.

 

[ericahls]

Awesome testimony. Thank you.

Thanks. I am not overly political but when it comes to fundamental rights I am.

 

[dblas]

Yes this is just a discussion. This specific issue is a much lower priority than many other aspects of the larger discussion. I've listed some examples of much more important things we should be discussing, see my previous posts. Im trying to offer context and reasoning to an issue that otherwise would boil down to things staying as they are now.

I'm simply encouraging we all work together to help other law abiding citizens get some immediate relief, add them to the list of those people that already have an easier time getting permits - while we are working on the larger issue of making Maryland a "shall issue" state.

That's the basis of my entire argument.

There isn't anyone that has an easier time getting a permit over anyone else in this state. Even politicians have to submit a G&S and have the interview and background check. The same goes for doctors, lawyers, business owners, security guards, former LEOs, and those that have been a vicim of violent crime.

The standards are the same for everyone.

The above comment is misguiding and incorrect.

There is no such thing as "all or none". I think we can all agree the threashhold for who is allowed is way to far to one side.

This issue is about the degree to which you are willing to allow people to carry. I'm saying we all agree who definitely should not be allowed, but as you start splitting hairs at some point moving toward who should be allowed to get a permit is different for each of us until we arrive at the other end of the spectrum and all agree again that "those people" obviously should be permitted to have carry permits". I'm asking anyone trying to discuss this to answer my question, where do you draw that line?

Our sense of this issue nationally has been changing, this graphic (although is stops at 2011 makes my point).

(snip)

If you oppose a law abiding veteran being added to the list that already exists, then we are pretty far apart on this issue.

People who already have the legal right to carry (off duty concealed), if anyone is suggesting (and I don't believe anyone is) that veterans, or any other group of law abiding citizens should not also be able to carry are actively working against the very principle of liberty for all.

Show us in COMAR or the MD annotated code, where any list exists of who can get a carry permit?

 

[dblas]

No, I have not been a target, but I fail to see where you think my statement is reaching. Certainly, and thankfully, in our current culture we are far more likely to get a "thank you for your service" than the unpleasant alternative of being bashed and harassed because we served in the military. Because it is less frequent does not mean that it does not exist. I did apply and I was denied.
So, lets define what is suitable as risk. A retired LE receives a threat, say once every 5 years. Is that enough or should it need to be once every six months, once a month? Rhetorical. No answer needed. The point is, it's subjective and not measurable.
You stated elsewhere that your permit is based on threats. To me, if the threats were serious enough to justify you getting a permit, the person making the threats should be in jail. Hell, I was a bouncer and kicked many of guys out of the bar where I worked. I would often times receive threats based on that, but they were drunk and only once did one of them come back when sober and make a veiled threat that related back to the bouncing. Meh.
No, I ABSOLUTELY do not hold any contempt for anyone who has gone through the wickets of getting their permit (color me jealous if you'd like, but this is not about that). What bugs me is that these same "classes" of people who have used the loopholes in the may issue system are the same people saying, all for one, one for all. Really? Okay, if you feel that way, make a statement and turn in your permit and refuse to apply again until the system is fixed. All for one, one for all, right?
I'm not stupid enough to think that anyone is going to do that and I would consider them stupid if they did. I just wish folks would not preach about not creating a class of people when they themselves are part of a class of people.
Lastly, you and many others did not work the system, but that does not mean the system is not workable. I simply choose to not be dishonest enough to work it (lie) like I would need to to qualify. As I mentioned previously, I had a guy who offered to help me get my permit. He was going to have me do it just like he got his and when I heard how that was I declined.

First of all, there are no carry permit loopholes, just like there are no gun show loopholes. The law is the law and the administrative regulations (COMAR) lay out how the law is enforced in Maryland.

What is being debated is not standards (loopholes?), it is administrative interpretation of the standards. And until the administrative interpretation is codified in COMAR to be applied fairly to all, it will be applied unfairly to some, fairly to others and reluctantly to still others.

This shouldn't be a discussion about standards, because this isn't an issue with standards. This should be a discussion about administrative interpretation, because that is what this is. It really is that plain and it really is that simple.

 

[Gryphon]

Well I am the "class" of person who got his permit by using the business person "loophole" and I have made a statement PUBLICLY, here is a link to my testimony in Annapolis about how ridiculous I think the system is.

http://youtu.be/vtjDcmZyFLY

I have maintained ALL along that the permitting scheme in this state is broken and I put my money where my mouth is.

I was there that day and also testified on HB36 & 521. I recall your testimony very well, and remember thinking to myself, what a great gesture it was for someone who already had a permit to take the time to make such a powerful point. Great job.

 

[ericahls]

I was there that day and also testified on HB36 & 521. I recall your testimony very well, and remember thinking to myself, what a great gesture it was for someone who already had a permit to take the time to make such a powerful point. Great job.

Thanks, I just felt it was time for me to get off my butt and stop complaining and start doing something about it.

I'm glad that you went down and spoke as well.

The more of us that are in their faces the harder it is for them to ignore us.

 

[KPSpeller]

Signed

 

[BlackBart]

I dunno. I had a cortisone shot in my heel one time. I think I'd rather have an injection into my eyeball.

They use LONG THICK ones for that. I had a few there before they decided to remove the heel spurs, the lil freeze spray is a joke!

 

[navycraig]

There isn't anyone that has an easier time getting a permit over anyone else in this state. Even politicians have to submit a G&S and have the interview and background check. The same goes for doctors, lawyers, business owners, security guards, former LEOs, and those that have been a vicim of violent crime.

The standards are the same for everyone.

The above comment is misguiding and incorrect.



Show us in COMAR or the MD annotated code, where any list exists of who can get a carry permit?

I applaud your faith that the system works equally for all. I don't happen to share that same belief.

I personally believe that it's naïve to think such is the case. Sure, we'd all like to believe that is true, but believing does not make it so.