Otis Cleaning System

[Fire-4-Effect]

This came up on another forum and was interested in everyone's feedback here. I believe that Otis kits should only ever be used for rifles or handguns where you cannot clean from the breech end with a rod.

Up for debate are my reasons:

1. Less work to push the patches / brush through with a rod

2. No matter how you slice it that plastic coated cable WILL rub on the muzzle if you are pulling it out from the muzzle end. Yes, it is plastic but what if debris gets imbedded in it? Just seems like you would want to minimize any possible chances of wear to the muzzle.

3. If you pull from the breech then you are pulling crap back into the chamber area and locking lugs. Maybe less so if you are using a bore guide but, will it stay in place if you are pulling the same direction that would pull the bore guide out?

4. Cleaning jags seem to work better for me then those eyelet patch holders. How do you use a Jag with a Otis kit? I also hate those round patches they sell that are designed for any caliber. What a pain!!

OK, so... am I crazy? Should I dump the expensive Dewey cleaning rods and jump on the covered cable bandwagon?

Phil

 

[Fire-4-Effect]

Let me add that I do use them while in the field. I have not been hunting for some time but when I used to go hog hunting regularly I would take one with me to oil inside the bore after a long days hunt in the Florida heat and humidity.

Phil

 

[Indiana Jones]

I only use it as a field cleaning kit. It was at the suggestion of a friend who said his marines loved them and so did he. I have no military experience, so I can't enlighten you there but I keep one in my camping kit if I bring a rifle with me. At home I use rods still, but have yet to find a really good durable set. (I always screw up cleaning rods!)

 

[Fire-4-Effect]

I only use it as a field cleaning kit. It was at the suggestion of a friend who said his marines loved them and so did he. I have no military experience, so I can't enlighten you there but I keep one in my camping kit if I bring a rifle with me. At home I use rods still, but have yet to find a really good durable set. (I always screw up cleaning rods!)

If you get a really good bore guide for rifles that can use them your rods will last a lot longer... I have found Dewey rods to be very good. The best bore guides are Lucas Bore Guides.

Phil

 

[Boom Boom]

I find cleaning rods to be a royal PITA. I say chances are way higher of damaging the bore with a stiff cleaning rod (plastic-coated or not) versus a plastic-coated flexible cable.

Hardly any of my rifles and revolvers can be cleaned from the breech end with a rod.

I have no problem pulling the Otis cable straight through without rubbing the bore. To that end, a quality gun vise helps greatly. For a rifle, it helps to pull it through in two or three arm sweeps. In other words, don't try to pull it through a rifle bore with one sweep of your arms, else you will drag it on the muzzle.

As you mention, if at all possible, you should never pull or push towards the breech.

As for jags with the Otis cable, assuming the threads match, you just screw whatever size jag you need onto the end of the cable, slip a patch in the eyelet, apply cleaner as needed, carefully feed it into the breech, and pull it through. It's simple.

I abandoned cleaning rods years ago when I bought the Otis deluxe rifle/pistol cleaning kit and various extra brushes and jags. Between the Otis setup and a bunch of bore snakes, it's smooth sailing here.

 

[Fire-4-Effect]

I find cleaning rods to be a royal PITA. I say chances are way higher of damaging the bore with a stiff cleaning rod (plastic-coated or not) versus a plastic-coated flexible cable.

No one can pull straight enough to not rub the muzzle. The cleaning rods do contact the lands but do not get pulled to one side or the other and do not touch the ends of the lands at the muzzle. Now, I am sure there are many who do not know what they are doing but if you use a rod properly vs. using the Otis system properly there is less chance of damage to the muzzle with a rod.

Hardly any of my rifles and revolvers can be cleaned from the breech end with a rod.

Then the Otis is your friend. I assume you do not own any bolt guns or AR's then.

I have no problem pulling the Otis cable straight through without rubbing the bore. To that end, a quality gun vise helps greatly. For a rifle, it helps to pull it through in two or three arm sweeps. In other words, don't try to pull it through a rifle bore with one sweep of your arms, else you will drag it on the muzzle.

You will always rub the bore on smaller calibers... The problem is the muzzle itself. If you are even slightly off center the cable will ride on the edge of the muzzle & lands. Too risky!

As you mention, if at all possible, you should never pull or push towards the breech.

As for jags with the Otis cable, assuming the threads match, you just screw whatever size jag you need onto the end of the cable, slip a patch in the eyelet, apply cleaner as needed, carefully feed it into the breech, and pull it through. It's simple.

Jags do not have eyelets... I think you are speaking about the patch holder with the eyelet. A jag is pointed and patches can only be pushed with a Jag, not pulled. Jags produce a more even surface contact with the patch & bore for cleaning. I have had much better results with a Jag then I ever have with a patch holder.

I abandoned cleaning rods years ago when I bought the Otis deluxe rifle/pistol cleaning kit and various extra brushes and jags. Between the Otis setup and a bunch of bore snakes, it's smooth sailing here.

I know I am being a bit nit picky. I do believe that the Otis kit has a place, just not for rifles and handguns that you will be cleaning from the breech that can be done at home. Why risk additional muzzle wear?

All very good points though... keep them coming!

Phil

 

[Numidian]

Meh. I don't worry about anything that much. I don't use bore guides, I don't use solvent traps, I use boresnakes, I use a brass cleaning rod and I've never really concerned myself with it rubbing against my muzzle or my throat.

Whatever I do that rubs against either is going to have virtually zero effect versus a bullet going supersonic and all the heat involved with that...

 

[pop-gunner]

I've been using Otis kits for years and love them.
Rods are nice at home, and foam works well with them but when traveling who has room for all that.
I have 4-5 Otis kits now (one in each rifle case and one in the truck) and use them often. If I have a severely leaded revolver or copper fouled rifle I will use a rod but otherwise it's a boresnake at the range or Otis at the end of the day.
Use what makes you sleep well at night.

 

[rrrrrrkevin]

Whatever I do that rubs against either is going to have virtually zero effect versus a bullet going supersonic and all the heat involved with that...

That's how I've always felt. I dont just ram my cleaning rods and purposely scratch the crown, but I really dont concern myself with which end I put the cleaning rod in.

The Otis kits are absolutely my favorite. I like boresnakes and I do use them sometimes if I have them around but they tend to wear out and are not as heavy duty.

 

[rico903]

Patchworm. Made in Westminster.

 

[Fire-4-Effect]

Meh. I don't worry about anything that much. I don't use bore guides, I don't use solvent traps, I use boresnakes, I use a brass cleaning rod and I've never really concerned myself with it rubbing against my muzzle or my throat.

Whatever I do that rubs against either is going to have virtually zero effect versus a bullet going supersonic and all the heat involved with that...

Hey, after all, they are your guns. You can do as you wish. I am not questioning your way of cleaning, more-so, looking to simply debate the merits of the Otis system. If you feel there are no negative effects and your guns have no impact by your method then it must be working.

So, do you agree then that it does rub more against the muzzle area using the Otis system? That is what I pick up from this post.

Phil

 

[Fire-4-Effect]

I've been using Otis kits for years and love them.
Rods are nice at home, and foam works well with them but when traveling who has room for all that.
I have 4-5 Otis kits now (one in each rifle case and one in the truck) and use them often. If I have a severely leaded revolver or copper fouled rifle I will use a rod but otherwise it's a boresnake at the range or Otis at the end of the day.
Use what makes you sleep well at night.

Good point. Everyone will use what makes them feel comfortable.

 

[Streetgang]

I've used the Otis system for years. Works great. I always pull from the muzzle. If it rubs so be it. The chance of doing enough damage to the crown is so low it's not worth the worry. Of course I don't shoot $10k+ sniper rifles so any effect from the rubbing would be no issue.
I understand your concern but unless you do extreme precision shooting your worrying about something that to me is not relevent.

Ed Shell hopefully will be along to shed his long distance expertise on this but I feel the rubbing no matter how much or little will have no effect for all but the most advanced shooting.

 

[Indiana Jones]

If you get a really good bore guide for rifles that can use them your rods will last a lot longer... I have found Dewey rods to be very good. The best bore guides are Lucas Bore Guides.

Phil

Thanks I'll look into it!

 

[tech24]

All I can say is that I've used nothing but an OTIS cleaning kit for years now and have found no easier, quicker way to get 360 degree cleaning. I have recently started using it with wipe out to get real tight patches to clean out the wipe out.

It is nearly impossible to do any damage to the rifle. My rifles still shoot 1/4 moa at 600yds after 1000s of rounds so doesn't appear to me I have damaged anything.

The closest thing you can get to cleaning as well as this kit is with a jag but they still aren't as tight. The otis solvent works well too. I never have any copper fouling. I run through the process 3 times...solvent patch, nylon brush, dry patch...bore is clean. Takes 5 minutes.

BTW the cable really doesn't make much contact with anything, the only possible problem is when you don't pull the metal eyelet out straight and the patch does a pretty good job of making that impossible. Its only close on 22 calibers anyway. Anything bigger nothing touches.

Another note, some aren't aware that it is common for a carbon ring to form right in front of chamber on ARs and some people use JB paste regularly to remove this. I have found with the tight patch from the otis kit this is never an issue. Varget has been said to be main cause of this carbon ring and I use nothing but varget.

 

[Hunterjjd]

most people, i would not care what they used as long as they clean some

 

[Numidian]

Hey, after all, they are your guns. You can do as you wish. I am not questioning your way of cleaning, more-so, looking to simply debate the merits of the Otis system. If you feel there are no negative effects and your guns have no impact by your method then it must be working.

So, do you agree then that it does rub more against the muzzle area using the Otis system? That is what I pick up from this post.

Phil

I've never used an otis system. If I did, I would not be concerned about rubbing the cable on my crown.

 

[kohburn]

after years of using plastic cable bore wipes on aluminum paintball barrels with no sign of anything(the anodizing wearing or polishing would be the first indicator) using them in situations with wiping out a mixture of paint and gritty dirt.

I just can not picture a situation or a number of repetitions it would take for that to cause the slightest amount of metal loss on the crown of a steel barrel.

 

[tech24]

I forgot to mention the only negative I can see is buying the patches. THey cost a little more and I haven't found anywhere local to buy them.

Some have problems with getting stuck patches, after probably 1000 or more patches I've used I've never had this happen. If you do its because you did put the patch on incorrectly. I have gotten a few really tight and bent the pull rod though.

I'd also like to elaborate on why I feel the system cleans better. Try putting a patch on a jag with as tight a fit as you get with the pull system and you wont push it through very easy and will be bending the cleaning rod. Pulling just gives better leverage.

And as I said before used in conjunction with wipe out you get bare metal clean bores with less than 5 mins of work not counting soak time of course

 

[Mark75H]

I use an Otis and like it. I agree with tech24 ... a lot of leverage to pull a tight patch thru. I don't bother buying Otis patches, I just cut my own square patches from worn out shirts ... gotta save the white ones for proof of clean, use the colored ones for the first dirty work.