Sirex
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Mossberg makes an autoloading HD shotgun.
Mossberg makes an autoloading HD shotgun.
Opinions on THIS shotgun for HD?
- Thread starter Lex Armarum
- Start date
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fivepointstar
Thank you MD-Goodbye
I have the 930C it came with 2 bbls 18" security and 28" field bbl.....its shoots great!
alucard0822
For great Justice
OK, so I've heard some insight and it has raised some questions:
1. What are the downsides to having any auto-loader other than sensitivity to ammo?
2. Someone posted info about turkish CZ failure rates. Care to elaborate? Post a source for this info?
3. In the alternative, if I were looking at a pump gun, I'd be interested in a Benelli Nova (see here: http://www.benelliusa.com/shotguns/benelli_nova_pump_tactical.php; pic:)
Thoughts? Answers?
1. Any gun can be ammo sensitive, even pump guns. There have been more than a couple times I have had to practically mortar my 870 to get a split shell out, and with some cheap short brass birdshot, it can stick in the chamber, and takes a pretty hard slam on the pump to extract it, you also have all the issues with extractor, ejector, and FCG failures. I probably have upwards of 50,000 rounds through my 870, and have probably had no more than a dozen failures over the years, I have also put about 15,000 through my Beretta AL391 semi, an have a grand total of 1 failure in it's entire life. Semis can be very reliable, IMO just as reliable as a pump if set up right. They do have a slightly more complex failure drill than a pump, but either can fail, and clearing failures should be practiced. With a lot of the new auto-regulating, adjustable, and variable gas systems, a semi can feed and fire a wide range of shells without any issues at all, and without much if any gunsmith tuning. There is no real need to go with 3.5" or even 3" chambers unless you HD gun will do double duty for hunting, stick with high brass 2 3/4" shells for defense, practice with them, and test them in order to catch and eliminate any potential problems. They are faster to fire, and recoil is reduced, with little if any weight penalty. Just a few years ago, I would have agreed a pump would be better for defense, but from firing, owning, and working on a few autos, I have been swayed.
2. Turkish guns can be just fine, they do have ome nice wood for stocks, and the quality vs price is very good, but if they are handed crap for specs by the Gun company, then crap they will make. I have no info on the CZs, like I said before, I never heard of them before this, but there is really only one way to find out. The main downside I would have would be parts and accesory availability if you wanted ghost ring sights or a mag extension, if you look for a 930SPX, 1100-tac series or 11-87PD, then take your pick, with Benelli M4s, and FNH SLPs there aren't as many accesories, but they don't need much if anything to run well.
3. The Benelli Nova is a decent pump, light weight, and no real issues. The only issues are lack of upgrades, you can build an 870 or 500 any way you want it, and can get tactical models with most of the features that make a gun good for defense already included, ghost ring/notch and post night sights, flashlight mounts, extended mag tubes and so on. Going with something different than the main stream can be fun, but you usually end up with an expensive uphill battle to get it equipped as well as more common models.
WSM
Rugeritis
I saw the MSRP and thought "this is probably a Turkish made gun built for CZ". Good call Joppa.
Sirex
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Someone previously said it. The clack of the shotgun being racked is one benefit of having a shotgun, instilling the fear of use in your assailants.
alucard0822
For great Justice
Bad guy starts trying to break in, you yell in a threatening manner, 85% likely he'll run away. If he hears that unmistakable chi-chunk only a 12gauge pump can make, 97.5% chance he'll run away.
However in a few other less likely scenarios, a pump is slower, requires more training, and can't be as easily fired with one hand.
(%'s are personal guesses for illustration purposes only)
However in a few other less likely scenarios, a pump is slower, requires more training, and can't be as easily fired with one hand.
(%'s are personal guesses for illustration purposes only)
Lex Armarum
Ultimate Member
- Oct 19, 2009
- 3,450
See, now ya'all got me thinking about a Saiga or a Mossberg 930
I like the autoloader as an HD gun, I worry about FTFeed and clearing jams but I suppose the same thing goes for my EBR. Nonetheless, the Ithaca 37 looks pretty nice too....
What to do?! What to do?!
I like the autoloader as an HD gun, I worry about FTFeed and clearing jams but I suppose the same thing goes for my EBR. Nonetheless, the Ithaca 37 looks pretty nice too....
What to do?! What to do?!
fivepointstar
Thank you MD-Goodbye
you're welcome to meet me at Delta or S. Lancaster one day and try out my 930. I think you'll like it
Buy a well made gun and spend some solid coin on good training and ammo then PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE.
I'm confident with a pump gun because of my training and practice. Auto loaders aren't as familiar to me so I'm better off with a 500 or an 870.
Lex Armarum
Ultimate Member
- Oct 19, 2009
- 3,450
You know, I was thinking the same thing. Here's the catch. The only short barreled double barrel shotguns I can find are coach guns. That's OK. However, most of them are hammered guns (the one's that I'm seeing at least) with the exception one. Can't recall the brand at the moment.
The Coach Gun seems like a pretty ideal HD gun. Simple design and function. Reloading is a cinch. Less chance of mech. failure due to less mech. I hunt geese with a single shot 10 ga and can reload that thing about as fast as I can rack a slide. However, the barrel on that thing is 30".
Oh yeah, one other concern I have about pumps is that I have relatively short arms. I often feel like I am leaning over the gun/reaching too far when racking the slide. I had a MAV 88 that I sold for this reason. My new Mossberg 835 is a bit better but its something I need to be aware of. Can you adjust a slide for a short reach?
I'm not much of a shotgun guy as I've had very limited exposure. Mostly a rifleman.
Isn't that always the answer with any firearm.
If those two big holes have you thinking in another direction, consider picking up an old Fox Model B or a Stevens and whack the bbls off at about 20". However, you are limited to two shots. No matter how fast you can reload when you're not under stress, it might not be so fast and smooth if someone's kicking your door down.
Pauly3J
Member
- Oct 16, 2009
- 50
I vote for a 500 or 870 model as well. You want it to go bang for sure in HD mode.
august1410
Marcas Registradas
Stoeger makes an affordable coach gun, but they have a reputation for light primer strikes.
august1410
Marcas Registradas
One note about the Ithaca.....it's a pain in the ass "combat loading" with the loading/ejection port on the bottom. A side ejector is much easier. When it's open, you can load, when it's closed, you cannot. Might prove crucial in a stressful situation.
Lex Armarum
Ultimate Member
- Oct 19, 2009
- 3,450
Have you ever been goose hunting? Stress? lol
I hear what your saying. It's different when the geese shoot back.
Yes, but I think it's more important with a shotgun than most other weapons. Many people seem to think shotguns are simple to use, especially pump actions. My experience is that a lot of people are wrong about that.
