No more SBRs

[Brooklyn]

Read up on it in MD here: http://dls.state.md.us/data/leganda...a_bildra_bildraman/BillDraftingManual2011.pdf

Page 107 - 108.

SECTION 2. AND BE IT FURTHER ENACTED, That if any provision of this
Act or the application thereof to any person or circumstance is held invalid for any
reason in a court of competent jurisdiction, the invalidity does not affect other
provisions or any other application of this Act which can be given effect without the
invalid provision or application, and for this purpose the provisions of this Act are
declared severable.


which only means that some of the law will remain. But only if it can stand alone. So we will see. They can't figure out what it means now let alone after parts fall away..

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

Form 1 okay after 1 October on currently owned AR15's
No new banned configurations can be bought as SBR's

Its hard to put up clear and concise information when the MSP and AG continue to provide different information each day. Otherwise, its a forum so why delete this thread because you don't feel like reading through it? The discussion has been informative and pretty productive. If MSP and the AG ever provide a solid piece of information, then post up a new thread.... Until then, game on

This was the most concise info I could find in this thread after scanning ~10 pages. Will doing a Form 1 on an already owned stripped lower be a problem?

I lost an 80% lower in a tragic boating accident so I don't want to register it, even for Form 1 SBR. I'd prefer to SBR the stripped lower I'm picking up this weekend, but this thread has conflicting info on how one should proceed. At this point I don't even have a trust nor the time to get it done before October; I just need to know if it's a possibly AFTER October 1st with a stripped lower.

EDIT: Not an AR pistol assembled from a lower, just a short barrel rifle assembled from a stripped lower; it wouldn't need to pass the OAL test, would it?

 

[armed ferret]

best bet is to file the paperwork online for the SBR and pay via debit card; should go pending quite quickly after that. provided you've got paperwork in (use express or priority with signature confirmation if you refuse to file online) before the 1st, odds are you'll be okay. my 5-year-plan starts next year when my enlistment ends, so worst case I just wait. I won't like it, but delayed gratification and all that.

 

[huesmann]

best bet is to file the paperwork online for the SBR and pay via debit card; should go pending quite quickly after that. provided you've got paperwork in (use express or priority with signature confirmation if you refuse to file online) before the 1st, odds are you'll be okay. my 5-year-plan starts next year when my enlistment ends, so worst case I just wait. I won't like it, but delayed gratification and all that.

You can file online with the ATF? What about the print cards?

 

[sleev-les]

This was the most concise info I could find in this thread after scanning ~10 pages. Will doing a Form 1 on an already owned stripped lower be a problem?

I lost an 80% lower in a tragic boating accident so I don't want to register it, even for Form 1 SBR. I'd prefer to SBR the stripped lower I'm picking up this weekend, but this thread has conflicting info on how one should proceed. At this point I don't even have a trust nor the time to get it done before October; I just need to know if it's a possibly AFTER October 1st with a stripped lower.

EDIT: Not an AR pistol assembled from a lower, just a short barrel rifle assembled from a stripped lower; it wouldn't need to pass the OAL test, would it?

I'm submitted with a stripped lower so I don't see why not, but IANAL. I know my OAL for my app because I know the parts list for what I'm doing and was able to get a length.

You can file online with the ATF? What about the print cards?

atfonline.gov the click eforms. Set up an account and go from there. Im using a trust so I am just uploading a copy of it. Print card, you'll probably have to mail in separately. I'd call the number and ask them how best to proceed.

 

[rob-ss]

I'm submitted with a stripped lower so I don't see why not, but IANAL. I know my OAL for my app because I know the parts list for what I'm doing and was able to get a length.



atfonline.gov the click eforms. Set up an account and go from there. Im using a trust so I am just uploading a copy of it. Print card, you'll probably have to mail in separately. I'd call the number and ask them how best to proceed.

I registered at the ATF website and opened Form 1 5320.1 and it stated:
Intended Use of Form
This form is filed to obtain permission from ATF to make an NFA firearm. To file this form electronically, the maker must be a legal entity, such as a corporation or trust, where fingerprints, photographs, or the Law Enforcement Certification are not required, or a State or local government agency.
So I'm guessing the everyday Joe can't file online without a Trust.

 

[razorV23]

I didn't know you could file online. I just sent out 2 form 1s yesterday. Wasn't planning on doing any but oh well.

 

[rcpd34]

If you are doing a Form 4 on an SBR are you required to do the 77R paperwork as well?

 

[swinokur]

No. That's one of the things about MSP saying all AR 15's will be banned after Oct 1. They didn't treat an SBR as regulated before 9no 77r required) but now they seem to want to and say it will be banned.

More made up shite from MSP.

 

[Justler]

This thread provided my with a lot of good information, the best of which I put to use tonight and signed up on atfonline.gov and filled out my Form 1 and paid all online!

The process was pretty painless and only took about 15 minutes because I had to find a tape measure to figure out my OAL and scan in my notarized trust!

I ran into one stumbling block which is pretty normal for trusts in regards to the permittee/licensee name which I quickly found assistance with here:

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2013/08/gun-trust-and-submitting-atf-f.html

The link gives you some assistance on what to put in.

I think I should be covered submitting prior to Oct 1 and paying via debit gets me proof on a bank statement that I have submitted ATF forms and payment prior to the date instead of hoping the check clears prior to then.

Much less painful than having to mail everything in!

I noticed there is also an "Ask the Experts" tab... I wonder if anyone has submitted questions there instead of in writing and gotten answers successfully?

 

[bblake00]

I've read this thing front to back and back to front I may have missed it but what is the stance on Short Barreled shot guns?

 

[swinokur]

And you avoid some of the wait. I'm at 90 days right now with MSP for my Form 4.

 

[sleev-les]

I registered at the ATF website and opened Form 1 5320.1 and it stated:
Intended Use of Form
This form is filed to obtain permission from ATF to make an NFA firearm. To file this form electronically, the maker must be a legal entity, such as a corporation or trust, where fingerprints, photographs, or the Law Enforcement Certification are not required, or a State or local government agency.
So I'm guessing the everyday Joe can't file online without a Trust.

Makes sense since you couldn't scan the fingerprint cards (for example)..

 

[tsmith1499]

Well that just sucks. I was going to do the same thing until I read that.

 

[daijizai]

I assume you had a problem with my affirmative statements regarding SBR and SBS. Every word is true. Here is the research.

Md. CRIMINAL LAW Code Ann. § 4-201(c)(2)

Md. PUBLIC SAFETY Code Ann. § 5-401(c)

Md. PUBLIC SAFETY Code Ann. § 5-406

Remember, I was simply addressing the legalities of manufacturing. Next time, withhold the snark until you have done the research.

While I do not agree with your statement against manufacture because the statue says manufactured for sale is illegal, not manufacture for personal use, you did find something that I would love to have legal opinion on.

MSP says no SBR because SB281 bans semi-automatic centerfire rifles with an overall length under 29 inches but MD legislature says that a SBR is not a rifle but rather a handgun...

So does this mean it is legal after all and MSP has their collective heads up their bums?

 

[swinokur]

MSP is not even claiming that they fail the OAL test. They said they will be banned because they are copies of the AR 15. I find it hard to understand that MSP does not currently say an SBR is regulated (no 77r required) but after Oct. 1 it is regulated and therefore banned.

 

[JailHouseLiar]

Well after reading, and reading, and reading I may SBR another lower. Just in case. Can't hurt to be early. Might be very painful to wait.

 

[HumbleEinstein]

While I do not agree with your statement against manufacture because the statue says manufactured for sale is illegal, not manufacture for personal use, you did find something that I would love to have legal opinion on.

MSP says no SBR because SB281 bans semi-automatic centerfire rifles with an overall length under 29 inches but MD legislature says that a SBR is not a rifle but rather a handgun...

So does this mean it is legal after all and MSP has their collective heads up their bums?

I was just addressing posts above that said the handgun roster has nothing to do with manufacturing. I did NOT make a statement against manufacturing. I said there are exceptions. It's up to you to figure out if you fit within an exception.

With regards to your question, at this point it is hard to say for sure. I can argue the case both ways, fairly convincingly. I have gone back and forth on the issue. Right now, I'm thinking that if you have a lower that was registered before 10/1, you MIGHT be able to SBR it afterwards.

Maryland law is very convoluted with regard to these issues. Additionally, there is a lot of uncertainty right now about how a lot of the new law will be interpreted going forward. I don't want to say too much on here until it plays out, but I'm thinking that there may be a path. In my mind, recent signs have been encouraging.

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE

 

[daijizai]

I just want to SBR a PS90 that I am getting this weekend but I didn't want to have to rush to do it. I don't have a trust set up yet, and I doubt I can get it done in time. Then there is the chaos behind whether it needs a form 4 or a form 1 due to SB281 language. I really hate MO'M and his cronies.

 

[rico903]

I just want to SBR a PS90 that I am getting this weekend but I didn't want to have to rush to do it. I don't have a trust set up yet, and I doubt I can get it done in time. Then there is the chaos behind whether it needs a form 4 or a form 1 due to SB281 language. I really hate MO'M and his cronies.

There are quite a few trust lawyers. I bet you can get it done. It may cost you more than Rusty but you'll have it.