no more force than was reasonably necessary: Property

[Wapato]

I've been trying to buff up on Maryland law going through some very informative threads here and other stuff I can find online.

However I am still entirely vexed about what will land you in jail regarding defending your property.

Also, if I'm reading things right, it matters greatly if you're talking about someone inside your house trying to steal something vs someone attempting to steal your car off your lawn or from a public street.

Do things also change dramatically between someone trying to take your DVD player vs trying to bust open your gun safe?

Anyway so if the situation is that you've got a firearm in hand, but are reasonably sure this fellow just wants your plasma TV as opposed to your life what can you do?

Are you legally able to use weapons that could be considered "less than lethal" such as:

-A taser
-pepper spray
-the butt of your rifle
-punching
-a rubber less-then-lethal shotgun shell

Can you hold anybody for police to pick up? (I.e. threatening to use force, possibly deadly, if they do not get on the ground NOW).

Also, would the cops show up a bit faster or in greater numbers if you mention that the thieves might get their paws on an assault weapon you legally own?

 

[mward]

I've been trying to buff up on Maryland law going through some very informative threads here and other stuff I can find online.

However I am still entirely vexed about what will land you in jail regarding defending your property.

Also, if I'm reading things right, it matters greatly if you're talking about someone inside your house trying to steal something vs someone attempting to steal your car off your lawn or from a public street.
Yes
Do things also change dramatically between someone trying to take your DVD player vs trying to bust open your gun safe?

Anyway so if the situation is that you've got a firearm in hand, but are reasonably sure this fellow just wants your plasma TV as opposed to your life what can you do?

Are you legally able to use weapons that could be considered "less than lethal" such as:

-A taserDepends on the county whether it's legal or not
-pepper spray
-the butt of your rifle
-punching
-a rubber less-then-lethal shotgun shell

Can you hold anybody for police to pick up? (I.e. threatening to use force, possibly deadly, if they do not get on the ground NOW).

Also, would the cops show up a bit faster or in greater numbers if you mention that the thieves might get their paws on an assault weapon you legally own?

Breaking and entering with the intent to steal or commit a crime is a first degree felony whether you are stealing a piece of candy, or a oven...the difference will probably result in what they steal - If it's over $500, it's a felony, <$500 is misdemeanor. Someone will come in here and give more specifics as I forgot, but I would definitely be holding someone at gun point if they were in my house until police arrived....

 

[WARPIG [USMC]]

If it's over $500, it's a felony, <$500 is misdemeanor.

I actually believe they changed the law here in MD to a felony theft being $1000 or greater.

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[Vince55]

Breaking and entering with the intent to steal or commit a crime is a first degree felony whether you are stealing a piece of candy, or a oven...the difference will probably result in what they steal - If it's over $500, it's a felony, <$500 is misdemeanor. Someone will come in here and give more specifics as I forgot, but I would definitely be holding someone at gun point if they were in my house until police arrived....

Isn't it a felony if they steal a gun? Thought that was an automatic.

But if someone is in my home, I'm not going to ask them if they are here to steal a TV or if they're going to hurt someone in the process of their theft. If they are in my home, knowing someone is in the house, then they're going to get shot. And obviously, if they're armed, they're not going to get a warning before hand.

 

[Dogabutila]

How about in carjackings?

 

[lx1x]

How about in carjackings?

federal crime since 1992

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carjacking#United_States

 

[mward]

Isn't it a felony if they steal a gun? Thought that was an automatic.

But if someone is in my home, I'm not going to ask them if they are here to steal a TV or if they're going to hurt someone in the process of their theft. If they are in my home, knowing someone is in the house, then they're going to get shot. And obviously, if they're armed, they're not going to get a warning before hand.

Stealing guns isn't smart...

I actually believe they changed the law here in MD to a felony theft being $1000 or greater.

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I just looked it up, and you're correct....didn't know!

 

[Sthomas229]

I've been trying to buff up on Maryland law going through some very informative threads here and other stuff I can find online.

However I am still entirely vexed about what will land you in jail regarding defending your property.

Also, if I'm reading things right, it matters greatly if you're talking about someone inside your house trying to steal something vs someone attempting to steal your car off your lawn or from a public street.

Do things also change dramatically between someone trying to take your DVD player vs trying to bust open your gun safe?

Anyway so if the situation is that you've got a firearm in hand, but are reasonably sure this fellow just wants your plasma TV as opposed to your life what can you do?

Are you legally able to use weapons that could be considered "less than lethal" such as:

-A taser
-pepper spray
-the butt of your rifle
-punching
-a rubber less-then-lethal shotgun shell

Can you hold anybody for police to pick up? (I.e. threatening to use force, possibly deadly, if they do not get on the ground NOW).

Also, would the cops show up a bit faster or in greater numbers if you mention that the thieves might get their paws on an assault weapon you legally own?

First, let me say I'm not a lawyer or LEO.If a say something incorrect, someone will be along to correct it.

You cannot use force to defend property in Maryland. You can't shoot the guy in your driveway breaking into your car. You can't shoot the guy carrying your tv out the door of your house.

You can only use deadly force in defense of your, or another persons life. A "reasonable person" must think that a life is in danger. In your home you have no duty to retreat.

HTH

 

[Dogabutila]

You can't shoot people just because they are felonies right? Have to be in reasonable fear of serious injury or death right? So in the case of a carjacking, how does that work out?



Or am I wrong and you can just shoot them for felonies?

 

[davsco]

carjacking - they're taking your car by force so that's a pretty simple call in my mind, defend yourself.

but spraying them with gunfire as they're driving away in your car (assuming they're not shooting at you while driving away, or trying to run you down) is probably a big no-no.

on a related note, is anyone aware of authoritative literature (like a book) that lays out a bunch of situations (carjacking, home invasion, simple home theft, gang approaching, etc) and the legality (or not) of drawing and firing your weapon. i realize legality and actuality are two different things, but still would be nice to know.

 

[Dogabutila]

Does it differ if the person is just trying to pull you out vs punching you in the face while doing so?

If he pulled you out of the car and is getting in, could you reasonably re-engage H2H?
If you did so, would that void your ability to shoot him if he started actually fighting you? (because one could argue that you are provoking/prolonging the fight?)

 

[aray]

FYI tasers are illegal in Anne Arundel County by county code.

 

[Sthomas229]

You can't shoot people just because they are felonies right? Have to be in reasonable fear of serious injury or death right? So in the case of a carjacking, how does that work out?



Or am I wrong and you can just shoot them for felonies?

If you're in Maryland and getting carjacked what are you going to shoot them with? Unless you're one of the priviledged few with a carry permit.

 

[rglrguy]

Riddle me this... why can you shoot to defend your life but you can't shoot to defend your property but you can get a ccw for making cash deposits but not because you fear for your safety?

 

[Sthomas229]

Riddle me this... why can you shoot to defend your life but you can't shoot to defend your property but you can get a ccw for making cash deposits but not because you fear for your safety?

Because politicians are idiots

 

[Redcobra]

FYI tasers are illegal in Anne Arundel County by county code.

Baltimore County too.

 

[mward]

Riddle me this... why can you shoot to defend your life but you can't shoot to defend your property but you can get a ccw for making cash deposits but not because you fear for your safety?

Because we live in this liberal state called Maryland run by politicians.

 

[Srsanbo]

carjacking - they're taking your car by force so that's a pretty simple call in my mind, defend yourself.

but spraying them with gunfire as they're driving away in your car (assuming they're not shooting at you while driving away, or trying to run you down) is probably a big no-no.

on a related note, is anyone aware of authoritative literature (like a book) that lays out a bunch of situations (carjacking, home invasion, simple home theft, gang approaching, etc) and the legality (or not) of drawing and firing your weapon. i realize legality and actuality are two different things, but still would be nice to know.

I like the way Florida Law is written/interpreted. Check this page out:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/self_defense.html

Forcible felonies where death or serious bodily injury may result are grounds for defense using deadly force. Now if MD could catch up - oh wait, I forgot, the police in MD are omnipotent and will be there to save you.

 

[WARPIG [USMC]]

Now if MD could catch up - oh wait, I forgot, the police in MD are omnipotent and will be there to save you.

LMAO

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[Wapato]

You can't shoot people just because they are felonies right? Have to be in reasonable fear of serious injury or death right? So in the case of a carjacking, how does that work out?

Or am I wrong and you can just shoot them for felonies?

You cannot use force to defend property in Maryland. You can't shoot the guy in your driveway breaking into your car. You can't shoot the guy carrying your tv out the door of your house.

Based on what little I've been able to dig up on case law and jury instructions, it seems that you are able to use SOME force to protect your home and property.

So while I'm pretty sure shooting the guy with your laptop in the back is going to get you into jail for quite a while, putting your boot up his rear might not. I'm really quite unsure of even that however.

I'm also unsure about holding someone for the police. I'm pretty sure if they make a run for it you couldn't actually shoot them without going to jail. But I'm not sure if there are legal ramifications for making threats that you would shoot them if they move if they believed you, got arrested, and filed something or other.

I'm starting to lean toward just letting them take whatever as long as they stay clear of the bedrooms, and see if I can find some decent homeowners insurance. .... Except I really wouldn't want them busting into the gun safe, arming up, and then maybe deciding to pay me a visit upstairs.

Hmmmm. They make tear gas grendes for civilian use. I wonder if it would be OK to toss one of those down the stairs and then retreat back to the bedroom. Though I suppose if the HVAC is on that might just dump it right into the upstairs too...

But if someone is in my home, I'm not going to ask them if they are here to steal a TV or if they're going to hurt someone in the process of their theft. If they are in my home, knowing someone is in the house, then they're going to get shot. And obviously, if they're armed, they're not going to get a warning before hand.

It's your house, but you might lose it in a civil trial and won't be able to see it again for a while if you blew someone away and can't make a decent case that you were clearly threatened with serious injury and used no more force than neccessary.