NICS problem ..... any solutions?

[redeemed.man]

Unless he wamts to pay a lawyer to sue the government, there is not much an attorney can do.

IMHO a lawyer would have a much better shot at successfully requesting a pardon than the OP would alone. In the law there appears to be no remedy for this situation that would occur in a courtroom. Since the OP plans to request a pardon anyway due to his apparent lack of eligibility for expungement he is likely best served by utilizing an attorney in his pardon request.

 

[repsolracer22]

The end of your probation was 2012. 5 years brings you to 2017. Talk to a 2A friendly lawyer.

Probation ended in 2010 actually ... so in about a year from now (Jan 2015) will be 5 years. So I have a year to get my 'pardon packet' together.

There may be attorneys that will put the packet together for you, but I think that's about it. I talked to the office that handles the packet and they said it gets reviewed for complete-ness and then it gets sent to someone who makes a decision. An attorney doesn't actually "present" it to anyone on your behalf or appear in person to anything. Its all done by mail. But sure, a lawyer may know some "tips" as to what to include in your package and what not to include, etc etc how to word everything .....

Figured Id ask to see if anyone in MD has had something similar happen to them and what they did.

 

[fabsroman]

More details are needed. Were you found guilty and given a suspended sentence with a probationary period, or were you given Probation Before Judgment? The answer to that makes a huge difference and determines whether you can get it expunged 3 years after the date the PBJ was entered or if you will need a pardon.

Alright, I just read through the thread after writing the above. The OP's only route at this point is a pardon. Hard to believe that the OP could not do better than a guilty plea and suspended sentence on a 2nd degree assault charge unless there were priors or he did not have an attorney, but I digress.

This is when this sort of thing SUCKS. When people make legal decisions on criminal matters without thinking about their 2nd Amendment rights.

 

[repsolracer22]

More details are needed. Were you found guilty and given a suspended sentence with a probationary period, or were you given Probation Before Judgment? The answer to that makes a huge difference and determines whether you can get it expunged 3 years after the date the PBJ was entered or if you will need a pardon.

Alright, I just read through the thread after writing the above. The OP's only route at this point is a pardon. Hard to believe that the OP could not do better than a guilty plea and suspended sentence on a 2nd degree assault charge unless there were priors or he did not have an attorney, but I digress.

This is when this sort of thing SUCKS. When people make legal decisions on criminal matters without thinking about their 2nd Amendment rights.

NO PBJ.
NO suspended sentence.

Just straight guilty plea. But they had agreed to not seek jail time or anything and just put me on 2 years probation. That's it.

No priors. I had a lawyer. Just the way the ball bounced. I got 2 yrs probation, and had no problems or issues even once. Probation was completely over, 4 years ago. So in a year from now will be 5 years and Im eligible for a pardon. Just wondering if anyone has attempted to get a pardon and how it went, etc. Any tips or advice on how to prepare the package and what to include? (besides 'get a lawyer' of course)

 

[MDFF2008]

I'll say this, I'm not a lawyer, and I've never requested a pardon, but I sure would focus on the job application aspect and not the gun owning aspect in MD.

 

[rwbow1969]

Through my friends Gun shop I have seen a few of his customers get denied recently. A lawyer in Hagerstown has been representing most of them and working with their cases. I personally have been asked "What do I do now." by these customers that were denied. I also made an appointment with this same lawyer to discuss these types of offenses and how he can deal with them. I spoke with him at length about PBJ's, guilty pleas, pardons and the like. It was very informative. Just to make it clear, I didn't need his services but, I wanted to know how this part of the system worked, especially because I work with MSI so much. At the end of the day I left with some good information and the Lawyer ended up with some MSI brochures and we both agreed to stay in touch to discuss other cases of this nature. We don't discuss clients names, just the case and how it pertained to loss of firearm rights. Most Lawyers will provide a free consultation and tell you whether or not you have a shot of winning.

 

[repsolracer22]

Here is an excerpt directly from the MD courts website relating to pardons. Interesting last line in the paragraph specifically mentioning firearms:


In Maryland, where individuals have lost civil liberties as a result of a conviction(s), they can apply to the Governor through the Maryland Parole Commission for a pardon for restoration of these rights. An applicant should specify the grounds for consideration and the specific relief from disabilities arising from a conviction(s) that is being sought. Please refer to the attached guidelines and statutory provisions for clarification of eligibility. A pardon may not provide total relief from all statutory or regulatory restrictions concerning firearms.

 

[sonicnofadz]

Best option: leave this state and never look back!

 

[repsolracer22]

Best option: leave this state and never look back!

except for the NICS system and my issue follows me out of state. so its the same in basically every state. leaving the state would help me zero

 

[sonicnofadz]

except for the NICS system and my issue follows me out of state. so its the same in basically every state. leaving the state would help me zero

Hmm so every state would prevent you from purchasing because of a PBJ?!

EDIT: Ah just re-read the thread, saw you had a conviction. Probably should talk to a lawyer to see what your options are.

 

[Inigoes]

except for the NICS system and my issue follows me out of state. so its the same in basically every state. leaving the state would help me zero

Some states have rights restoration procedures.

Unfortunately, you are at the mercy of the Governor here in MD.

 

[repsolracer22]

Some states have rights restoration procedures.

Unfortunately, you are at the mercy of the Governor here in MD.

Good point. But even if I went to another state (that was more lenient), Id probably have to live there for a long period of time before they would consider it. Not like you can move there for a week and you're good. And then even if they restored me or whatever ... i think id still be illegal in MD if I ever came back .. correct?

 

[Inigoes]

Yep

 

[fabsroman]

Through my friends Gun shop I have seen a few of his customers get denied recently. A lawyer in Hagerstown has been representing most of them and working with their cases. I personally have been asked "What do I do now." by these customers that were denied. I also made an appointment with this same lawyer to discuss these types of offenses and how he can deal with them. I spoke with him at length about PBJ's, guilty pleas, pardons and the like. It was very informative. Just to make it clear, I didn't need his services but, I wanted to know how this part of the system worked, especially because I work with MSI so much. At the end of the day I left with some good information and the Lawyer ended up with some MSI brochures and we both agreed to stay in touch to discuss other cases of this nature. We don't discuss clients names, just the case and how it pertained to loss of firearm rights. Most Lawyers will provide a free consultation and tell you whether or not you have a shot of winning.

Understanding this isn't that difficult and anybody that owns guns or even has an inkling of owning a firearm should take this sort of matter into consideration when agreeing to a plea on a criminal charge.

A PBJ is only a problem if it is for one of the 17 listed crimes of violence, except for 2nd degree assault. Thing is, a PBJ can be expunged after 3 years have passed. So, get a PBJ for one of the 17 listed crimes of violence, except 2nd degree assault, and you are going to be prohibited for 3 years. No idea what a person would do with any assault weapons that they possess at that time because they would be prohibited from possessing them and another person will not be able to receive them on their behalf. Maybe loan them to somebody out of state and then go out of state to get them back, but I would have to think long and hard on that process. So, going to trial might be the best bet under some circumstances if there is any hope of winning the case.

Being convicted (i.e., receiving a Guilty verdict whether it is via plea or trial) of a misdemeanor that carries more than a 2 year sentence will result in a person being prohibited and being convicted of any felony will result in a person being prohibited.

Oh yeah, then there is being prohibited as a habitual drunkard or a habitual drug user.

I really find it troublesome that there are so many crimes out there that can result in a person being prohibited.

End of the day, if you own firearms or have an inkling of owning a firearm in the future and you are charged with a crime, make sure you discuss this type of issue with your attorney. Most criminal attorneys do NOT even take current or future firearm ownership into account.

The saddest part is that as part of the acceptance of a plea, the Md Rules require attorneys to advise their clients that accepting a guilty plea could result in the revocation of their probation if they are on probation and it could affect their immigration status if they are not already a citizen of the US. There is no requirement whatsoever to advise the defendant that by pleading guilty it might affect their 2nd Amendment rights. I should start throwing that into my voir dire. Might throw the judge for a loop though.

 

[fabsroman]

Here is an excerpt directly from the MD courts website relating to pardons. Interesting last line in the paragraph specifically mentioning firearms:


In Maryland, where individuals have lost civil liberties as a result of a conviction(s), they can apply to the Governor through the Maryland Parole Commission for a pardon for restoration of these rights. An applicant should specify the grounds for consideration and the specific relief from disabilities arising from a conviction(s) that is being sought. Please refer to the attached guidelines and statutory provisions for clarification of eligibility. A pardon may not provide total relief from all statutory or regulatory restrictions concerning firearms.

Yep, and the Parole and Probation website says the same thing. Thing is, it does not really explain when firearms restrictions would not be completely relieved when a pardon is granted. It might be up to the governor. If that is the case, those seeking a pardon to have firearms restrictions reinstated might want to wait until a pro-gun governor is in place. Might be when hell freezes over, but who knows.

 

[fabsroman]

Ugh...need to correct some mis-info real quick.

SB281 specifically states:



Misdemeanor assault is 2nd assault. So no, a PBJ for misdemeanor assault is not a disqualifying crime. Typical PBJ conditions (especially supervised probation) include not possessing firearms in this state, but once PBJ is up you are NOT disqualified for 2nd Assault. You can get 2nd Assault for spitting on someone.

So if you got PBJ for 2nd assault, your PBJ conditions may prohibit firearm ownership, but PBJ is NOT a conviction, and thus is NOT a disqualifiaction so long as your probation is completed.


The OP got "real" probation, which is a different matter altogether. "Real" probation means that judgement was rendered, you were convicted/found guilty, and the judge gave you probation instead of jail/fines. That's a conviction, and a disqualification on the 4473, question 11c, since 2nd Assault in MD carries a maximum penalty of 10 years.


Either way, expungement is the only option...it wipes the conviction off of your record, making it essentially like "it never existed". You should do this with ANY charges you EVER incur for ANY reason as soon as expungement is first available. In the case of the OP, it sounds like 3 years from completion of probation and closure of the case...so 2015. Assuming anyone can still own guns in this state by then, you'd have to apply for expungement (google "MD Expungement") to get it wiped off your record.

Remember, the record is available to the general public via MD Judiciary Case Search. If you don't get it expunged, future employers, family and friends, ANYONE can see your case history.


Just curious...did you get a lawyer? Or did you figure it wasn't a big deal and just went "pro se"? Not asking for any other details, just morbidly curious, and feel free to not answer.

The OP did have an attorney.

He has a guilty verdict on the matter, so expungement is NOT an option. Pardon is the only option and even then it might not restore his firearm rights.

 

[Pinecone]

1) This is NOT an MD or MOM thing. He was trying to buy a RIFLE. NICS turned him down, so it is Federal.

From BATFE page:

Q: Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition?
Yes, a person who —
Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;

He was convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment for more than 1 year, he is prohibited from owned ANY firearm, ANYWHERE in the US.

So he has to get a pardon or expungement, to restore his rights to firearm ownship.

 

[rwbow1969]

What state doesn't require a NICS check?

 

[Inigoes]

What state doesn't require a NICS check?

Any prohibited person caught with a firearm, would only exacerbate the problem.

 

[rwbow1969]

What I meant was someone stated "Just move to another state." I'm thinking, what state doesn't have a NICS check? None. Unless the firearm is transferred via person to person sale. If caught with a firearm and being prohibited, the scenario would not be good.