Newb AR15 sight\optic help

[Pinecone]

Sort of.

Optics can suffer from parallax, where the image of the reticle (or dot) is not in the same focal plane as the target. So when you move your head, the reticle or dot seems to move on the target, even when the firearm is not moved.

This is why firearms with optics are set up with a tight cheek weld to get your eye in the same place every time.

And unlike iron sights, you cannot see when you are misaligned.

 

[TheBulge]

Sort of.

Optics can suffer from parallax, where the image of the reticle (or dot) is not in the same focal plane as the target. So when you move your head, the reticle or dot seems to move on the target, even when the firearm is not moved.

This is why firearms with optics are set up with a tight cheek weld to get your eye in the same place every time.

And unlike iron sights, you cannot see when you are misaligned.

This is not true for good red dots. They are parallax free. If you can see the dot through the glass it is on target. It does not matter where your eye is in relation to the optic or where the dot is on the glass. That's why you can have a lower 1/3 cowitness. This is one of the big strengths red dot optics have over iron sites .

 

[TxAggie]

Something that has been hinted at but not really discussed is your shot groups at 50 yards.

How are you doing your zero groups? You need to pick a shot group size, 3 or 5 is typical. I use 3 simply because that's what the Army uses.

Stick with that at 50 yards until you are able to get consistent shot groups. If you aren't able to shoot groups that are no larger than 2 inches center-to-center at 50 yards, the. You will have a very difficult time zeroing at longer distances.

If this is the case, stay at 50 and focus on your fundamentals. Steady position, sight picture, breathing, trigger squeeze. There's no point in rushing this, and it may take more than 10 visits a year, but otherwise you're just throwing lead down range.

Good luck and welcome to AR's.

 

[gti0125]

Something that has been hinted at but not really discussed is your shot groups at 50 yards.

How are you doing your zero groups? You need to pick a shot group size, 3 or 5 is typical. I use 3 simply because that's what the Army uses.

Stick with that at 50 yards until you are able to get consistent shot groups. If you aren't able to shoot groups that are no larger than 2 inches center-to-center at 50 yards, the. You will have a very difficult time zeroing at longer distances.

If this is the case, stay at 50 and focus on your fundamentals. Steady position, sight picture, breathing, trigger squeeze. There's no point in rushing this, and it may take more than 10 visits a year, but otherwise you're just throwing lead down range.

Good luck and welcome to AR's.

:thumbup: great points.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk 4

 

[mathfish]

Ok, thanks again for all the great points. That all helps a lot. Sounds like first I will focus on my fundamentals and zeroing in/becoming proficient using my back iron sights. And it seems like when that bridge is crossed I should really consider some sort of optic solution for my sighting.

Thanks again for all the help.

 

[marylandondeck]

I've never owned a quality red dot. Are the primary arms ones parallax free?

 

[TomisinMd]

+1 to this. Also, is this benchrested? If so, how is it benchrested? Can you describe the set up to shoot?

Something that has been hinted at but not really discussed is your shot groups at 50 yards.

How are you doing your zero groups? You need to pick a shot group size, 3 or 5 is typical. I use 3 simply because that's what the Army uses.

Stick with that at 50 yards until you are able to get consistent shot groups. If you aren't able to shoot groups that are no larger than 2 inches center-to-center at 50 yards, the. You will have a very difficult time zeroing at longer distances.

If this is the case, stay at 50 and focus on your fundamentals. Steady position, sight picture, breathing, trigger squeeze. There's no point in rushing this, and it may take more than 10 visits a year, but otherwise you're just throwing lead down range.

Good luck and welcome to AR's.

 

[TxAggie]

+1 to this. Also, is this benchrested? If so, how is it benchrested? Can you describe the set up to shoot?

Yes, absolutely to get a good shot group you need to be either bench rested or prone.

It really just depends on you whether you like bench or prone, I personally prefer prone for zeroing because I just use a sandbag up front and my body weight for recoil. If you shoot from a bench, just use a sandbag, don't bother with a sled. The sled's are good for competition zero, but they don't help you with your fundamentals.

Also, refrain from a bipod as you are learning. Again, they are good for specific circumstances, but not good for learning fundamentals.

The bench setup is straight forward:
Place a sandbag near the end of the table and shape it so your rifle is level when pulled into your shoulder. I like to rest my hand on the sandbag itself then hold the rifle in my hand. This helps to reduce muzzle climb, and keeps you on target for follow up shots. When positioning yourself, DO NOT put your weight up on your trigger elbow. You want your elbow kicked out to the side, you basically want your armpit steady against the side of the table and relatively low. This is why you need to punch down your sandbag. The prone is a little harder to do this, so if you do pull your firing elbow underneath, try to use your support elbow more than your firing elbow for support.



Also a quick note: this is a time when 20 round mags are golden, the shorter length allows you to keep from using the magazine as a bipod. I know people do it, but it's not good on many levels.

The one advantage to bench rest is that you can more firmly press the butt into the pocket of your shoulder. When you sit behind your rifle, physically pull the rifle into your shoulder with your support hand and keep positive pressure. This helps steady your position, helps to maintain consistency of rifle position, keeps pressure off your shooting hand, and for larger calibers it helps you control recoil better.

I could go into body positioning, but that can vary a LOT depending on your body type, injuries, etc. hopefully this is relatively clear and helps. It's been a little while since I've taught someone so I might be a bit rusty and left out a few minor details.

 

[erwos]

TxAggie just handed you a lot of great advice.

I guess the thing that took me a while to come to grips with was that I was never going to get the same level of precision I was able to get with a scope at longer ranges. I'm so used to shooting 1" paper circles that the concept that, at longer ranges, I just needed to hit a large silhouette didn't really take in my brain.

 

[rafael]

OP, consider going to a gun show to look through different scopes if that is the way you decide to go. I have a trijicon 1-4 that I am very happy with for short distances and a trijicon 3-9 for longer. As I get better, I will be looking at NightForce scopes, but they are not cheap. Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[Pinecone]

While dot sights come in both "tube" and "open" designs, the tube type is superior for the bullseye game. Durability, superior zero-holding, fewer stray reflections and better mounting options are just a few of the reasons.

While the objective lens (tube diameter) of sights range from 25mm (or 1 inch) all the way up to 54mm, anything larger that 25mm may be nothing more than an unnecessary addition of weight. Also, the larger the tube diameter, there is a greater potential for off-axis parallax error as well.

Like other reflector sights, the collimated image of the red dot is only truly parallax free at infinity, with an error circle equal to the diameter of the collimating optics for any target at a finite distance.[3] This is compensated for by keeping the dot in the middle of the optical window (sighting down the sight's optical axis

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/dotsight.htm

Scroll down to "Parallax is an Issue with All Dot Sights."

 

[Overboost44]

OP, I don't know where you are from or where you shoot, but I have an Eotech if it is convenient for us to get together. I too, have a LE6920, but it has a QD mount, so we could just put it on yours if you want. I know you said you didn't want to spend too much, so it is up to you if interested. The Eotech's are parallax free.

 

[fidelity]

Yes, absolutely to get a good shot group you need to be either bench rested or prone.

It really just depends on you whether you like bench or prone, I personally prefer prone for zeroing because I just use a sandbag up front and my body weight for recoil. If you shoot from a bench, just use a sandbag, don't bother with a sled. The sled's are good for competition zero, but they don't help you with your fundamentals.

Also, refrain from a bipod as you are learning. Again, they are good for specific circumstances, but not good for learning fundamentals.

The bench setup is straight forward:
Place a sandbag near the end of the table and shape it so your rifle is level when pulled into your shoulder. I like to rest my hand on the sandbag itself then hold the rifle in my hand. This helps to reduce muzzle climb, and keeps you on target for follow up shots. When positioning yourself, DO NOT put your weight up on your trigger elbow. You want your elbow kicked out to the side, you basically want your armpit steady against the side of the table and relatively low. This is why you need to punch down your sandbag. The prone is a little harder to do this, so if you do pull your firing elbow underneath, try to use your support elbow more than your firing elbow for support.

View attachment 98792

Also a quick note: this is a time when 20 round mags are golden, the shorter length allows you to keep from using the magazine as a bipod. I know people do it, but it's not good on many levels.

The one advantage to bench rest is that you can more firmly press the butt into the pocket of your shoulder. When you sit behind your rifle, physically pull the rifle into your shoulder with your support hand and keep positive pressure. This helps steady your position, helps to maintain consistency of rifle position, keeps pressure off your shooting hand, and for larger calibers it helps you control recoil better.

I could go into body positioning, but that can vary a LOT depending on your body type, injuries, etc. hopefully this is relatively clear and helps. It's been a little while since I've taught someone so I might be a bit rusty and left out a few minor details.

Great post. I'm going to re-read before going to the range. Just got two new scopes (my first) that I plan to sight in (if this is the correct term). Neither are for an AR, so won't be bore sighting initially.

 

[TheBulge]

http://www.bullseyepistol.com/dotsight.htm

Scroll down to "Parallax is an Issue with All Dot Sights."

It seems Aimpoint should change their claim of
"Absence of parallax -No centering required" to "some parallax"
I checked mine. The dot did move off of zero a minimal amount at in the house distances.

 

[mathfish]

A LOT of great info here. Thanks a lot.

And good advice on going to a gun show to check out the sights when it comes to that point.

And Overboost44, that offer is greatly appreciated. I live down in PG county but I'm new to the state. Last week I shot up in Westminster at Hap Baker, which was nice enough and RO were good. But still new to the state and trying to find places. I'll hit you up the next time I head out or feel free to shoot me a pm when you go out.

 

[hkbob]

Another good article on holding the rifle properly...
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Resources/Articles/Hold+that+Forend.html