New / better approach to "protests" or "activism"?

[Southern_Boy]

Hi all. I saw this video today, and was prompted to come and share it immediately!

PLEASE: Open your mind, watch the vid, and THINK!
I'll admit - at first I was a bit repulsed, but then I realized that was part of the GENIUS of the entire tactic.

I would **LOVE** to stand up to testify in a "shall-issue" hearing and say something like the following:

"Jawol Herr ReichsFuehrer Frosh!
I juzzt Vanted to tell you 'dat Vee Nazis support your ONGOING efforts to disarm 'de untermenschen -- especially 'de vile Schvatzen und Juden~!

Your ongoing ensurance 'dat only der PROPER sorts of people can get zee permits for self-defense are makeing Der Fuehrer VEDDY PROUD!

(turning to the crowd)

Come - People! Join me in three cheers for Herr ReichsFuehrer Frosh!!

Seig Heil! Seig Heil! Seig Heil!

Zank you veddy musch!"

Honestly, there are all sorts of current, important topics that deserve this treatment.

Decrying them for "nazi-like behavior" -- like pointing out the fact that the '68 GCA is essentially a verbatim translation of the Nazi acts -- is one thing, but putting on the show like this -- in SUPPORT of their tyranny -- goes well beyond and makes the point in a most poignant way.

The young man makes this perfectly clear at ~9:30 --

...This is a Saul Alinsky ridicule tactic where we try to make the person who is bringing about tyranny feel like, look like a total @$$hole in the court of public opinion...

Those who "get it" will GET IT -- and even those who don't will be affected... "why would those Nazis be so fond of Frosh??!!"

It will definitely make people THINK!

That it also turns their "alynski" sickness back on them, and subjects them to the ridicule they so richly deserve is just icing on the cake!

SB

(OFF-TOPIC) PS: I'd also LOVE to do the same at BWI/TSA, MSP "checkpoints" and other fitting examples. THIS HAS POTENTIAL!!

 

[MDFF2008]

That would be honestly terrible.

It was tried last year through a group called Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership and we had go to into full damage control/max protect defense in order to keep it from blowing up.

Connecting Frosh with Nazis or questioning his Judaism has not proven to be fertile ground, in fact, it's proven to be like running through a burning oil field with a flamethrower on your back.

Many Jews in the areas he represents believe the opinion of Rabbi Nathan who's teaching on keeping a dangerous dog equates that Gun Control is a Jewish issue.

Any attempt to change that has not been met with any degree of success.

BTW I'm not yelling at you or anything, it's just that this sort of thing with Frosh and Judaism, it has the potential to really, really hurt MSI.

Also, we don't need to violate Godwin's Law.

 

[DeeDeub]

Yeah, this would be a great idea; a group of people already considered 'extreme' in wanting reasonable 2nd Amendment rights marching into some politicians office dressed in brown shirts and making demands in cheesy German accents. What could possibly go wrong? I mean, it's not like it would hit YouTube for everyone to point at and laugh and say 'see? told you these guys were nuts'!

Also, don't forget to wear camo and t-shirts with Tea Party sentiments next time you testify before senate subcommittees.

 

[joppaj]

Nazi images are pretty simple. If you're not refering to a German political party led by Adolph Hitler, DON'T USE IT. We have facts on our side, the anti's get the emotional images. They win in public opinion amongst the sheep, we win in court.

 

[pcfixer]

Nazi images are pretty simple. If you're not refering to a German political party led by Adolph Hitler, DON'T USE IT. We have facts on our side, the anti's get the emotional images. They win in public opinion amongst the sheep, we win in court.

good advice.. Stick to the FACTS.

 

[rambling_one]

Nazi images are pretty simple. If you're not refering to a German political party led by Adolph Hitler, DON'T USE IT. We have facts on our side, the anti's get the emotional images. They win in public opinion amongst the sheep, we win in court.

 

[boule]

Come - People! Join me in three cheers for Herr ReichsFuehrer Frosh!!

I just want to point out that in case you want to do this, the appropriate title would be "Gauleiter Frosch". The "Führer" historically always refers to the head of state and aspiring that title usually got you in front of a firing squad or up on the gallows.
Otherwise you may want to state that the exile Nazi-Government in Neuschwabenland is well aware of his efforts and will reward him with a cozy post after the conquest of the disarmed US.

While such a comparison might be quite funny, I don't think it would lead to anything except some bad press. Just do as other people suggested here and continue to confuse them with facts.

 

[oldman12]

I just want to point out that in case you want to do this, the appropriate title would be "Gauleiter Frosch". The "Führer" historically always refers to the head of state and aspiring that title usually got you in front of a firing squad or up on the gallows.
Otherwise you may want to state that the exile Nazi-Government in Neuschwabenland is well aware of his efforts and will reward him with a cozy post after the conquest of the disarmed US.

While such a comparison might be quite funny, I don't think it would lead to anything except some bad press. Just do as other people suggested here and continue to confuse them with facts.

AHH yes the old confuse the libtards trick.

Should be easy, look at the Obama administration, Been confused for years.

 

[MDFF2008]

Nazi images are pretty simple. If you're not refering to a German political party led by Adolph Hitler, DON'T USE IT. We have facts on our side, the anti's get the emotional images. They win in public opinion amongst the sheep, we win in court.

This pretty much sums it up.

To the OP, I commend you for thinking outside the box, we def need a supply of new ideas, but I think this one should be left on the cutting room floor.

Plus, like I said, Frosh is REALLY sensitive about people questioning his Jewish Gun control.

 

[aquaman]

Based on what happened last time, I suggest the mods nuke this thread

 

[MDFF2008]

I wouldn't suggest nuking it, since it does pretty much stand as a big no.

 

[foxtrapper]

Makes me think of a similar: dragging the KKK in there to support Frosh for continuing the democrat tradition of disarming blacks, and how great it is to still have a sort of Jim Crow regulation on the books. The KKK can even say that perhaps even they can see eye to eye with a jew, esp considering the jewish flight from Baltimore after the '68 riots. Obviously jews hate black people too.

 

[SkunkWerX]

I love out of the box thinking, and the video was great, for the CheckPoint issue.
College kids can get away with it.

Otherwise, it appears more like a CodePink style / Left Wing extreme tactic.
We know how we think when we see those dummies? right? Do we want to bee seen from the anti-side in that light? We don't need to give any ammunition to the anti-2a side right now, they are starved for ideas right now.

For some reason, the extreme style of tactics used by the left, don't work well for viewpoints like ours (2A).
While we are sometimes on the defensive with the legislature ( a lot in MD), we are on the offensive in the Court systems of many states, US District Courts and the SCOTUS.

We clearly now have the momentum. So, we need to be cautious about our Public Relations.

I do get the joke, I can appreciate it, in the video, but it has a very low probability to help us with our 2A issues, and, at the same time, a very high probability of hurting our cause.

 

[Spot77]

Makes me think of a similar: dragging the KKK in there to support Frosh for continuing the democrat tradition of disarming blacks, and how great it is to still have a sort of Jim Crow regulation on the books. The KKK can even say that perhaps even they can see eye to eye with a jew, esp considering the jewish flight from Baltimore after the '68 riots. Obviously jews hate black people too.

We've tried gaining traction with that (very valid) angle before, but unfortunately it seems the majority of Blacks in MD prefer to stay somewhat enslaved with regards to gun rights.

You can't have a bunch of white guys telling everybody they're trying to end racist gun control for the affected minorities without any participation from those affected minorities.


The Nazi comparison was also tried many years ago by a fellow name Gus Alzona if memory serves me correctly and failed MISERABLY.

We fought the backlash from that for years just as we'll be suffering the backlash of that JPFO flier for years.

 

[hvymax]

When testifying on the house bills and in my written submissions on the senate bills I mentioned that MD's constitution is most notable for it's absence of recognition of the citizens right to bear arms. I then mention that this was because the MD legislature at the time was not willing to recognize these rights for freedmen and minorities. I then point out that it still seems to be the case today.

 

[MDFF2008]

I've frequently wished we could have a greater minority participation in MSI. Not that we need any affirmative action or anything, but just to give us a wider perspective and reach.

 

[Southern_Boy]

Didn't know Frosh was Jewish -- and frankly not sure I care.

Seems to me that treating someone differently because of race/whatever is the sort of thing we're supposed to be TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM! Remember that whole "content of his character" thing?

Quick note -- the title I was searching for was "UnterScheissFuhrer". FTR, the "*-Fuhrer" suffix just meant/s "leader" -- a "squad leader" was "Scharfuhrer". "Unter-" is literally "under" but means "Junior" in this context, as "Ober"="over"="Senior."

And yeah - "Junior $#!+ Leader" seems a pretty fitting appellation for that petty little tyrant.

Maybe I'm the only one who's noticed, but "political correctness" is among the most insidious (and sadly successful) forms of tyranny The Enemy has imposed upon us. We spend all our time walking on eggshells and STILL end up forced to defend ourselves from the BS they twist out of context...

Personally, I refuse to play any more.

Don't want to be compared to a nazi? Stop acting like one! The *FACT* is that the '68 GCA was a near-verbatim translation of the nazis' 1938 GC act. Don't like hearing that? Repeal it! You'd certainly have our support!

Besides - why is it that The Enemy are allowed to say whatever they want, regardless of validity, but we're not allowed to point out TRUTH?!

Don't get me wrong - I'll be polite so long as courtesy is reciprocated, but I'll not be abused.

REAL example:

Enemy (shrieking loony) Drone: "You just don't like Obama because he's BLACK! You're a RACIST!"

Me (smiling, speaking in a level tone): "I couldn't care less what color he is on the outside -- I hate him because he's RED on the INSIDE. Now, if you want to have an adult discussion, that's fine -- but name-calling's not going to work. If we're going to play by schoolyard-rules, well, then just call me 'racist' one more time and I'll knock your teeth down your throat."

He decided he had someplace else to be -- which was just fine by me.

As to the rest, I don't know what "JPFO flyer" incident you're referring to, but... I'm a member of JPFO, and have seen most (if not all) of their material. Based on other hints (above) I can imagine what likely happened -- and I guess it's exactly what I mean...

My response would likely be "Don't like the comparisons? Stop acting like them so they won't be valid any more."

We - as a nation - are where we are because *We* (conservatives/constitutionalists/whatever) have continued to "play by the rules" of civility while The Enemy has been at war. It's time we realize this isn't a friendly discussion at the Country Club, it's a down-and-dirty street-fight, the outcome of which will determine whether my kids and grandkids get to live in America or in "That Place Where America Used To Be." "Robert's Rules" just don't apply!

These people are The Enemy -- and AFAIAC it's long past time we started acting like it. I see no reason to be "nice" to people who would strip me and mine of our G*d-given rights.

Though there's much I don't like about this guy[/B], he's also right about an awful lot -- ESPECIALLY this bit:

There comes a time when civility is no longer appropriate as the only option on the table. Dare we not offend the sensibilities of Liberals, Socialists, and Communists in our midst who are ruining and destroying our Republic? Are we to cower and sheepishly genuflect when we are scolded for the tone or choice of our words in the face of ruin, poverty, tyranny, and death?!
Are we so frightened of chastisement from insignificant men and women of the political Left with stained and darkened souls that we turn from our duties of Patriotism and shun our sacred obligation to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America? We ask you, is not our Republic worth the risk of being castigated? Is the soul of our mighty nation no longer worthy of our fortunes, our lives, and our Sacred Honor? Have we lost so much of our heritage, our courage, our mettle, and grit that we will stand idly by and permit the foolish and the stupid, who work hand-in-hand with evil people in our nation, that we will permit them to send us into eternal slavery and tyranny as the world has never before witnessed?

Excerpt: You are a fool if you do not believe that elements of the Left would use force, if they could, to compel you to comply with many of their edicts. In drafting healthcare reform, they use the threat of financial fines, felony conviction and prison if you refuse to buy health insurance!

How is that not only a degree or two removed from a pistol to the head? We are undeniably heading toward the same tyrannies known to Russians, Germans, and the Chinese. It starts with Liberalism, advances to Socialism, and ends with Fascism, Communism, or some other tyranny…and death.

*IF* Frosh is jewish, he doesn't deserve a "pass" -- IMNSHO he deserves even LESS courtesy -- because he of all people ought to know better!

/rant off

In any case, I appreciate the input and discussion. I'm not suggesting we abandon civility -- especially among ourselves.

I appreciate that we can disagree but do so in a respectful manner...

SB

 

[DeeDeub]

Wow...

 

[MDFF2008]

SouthernBoy, take a breath first

Let's examine a few things you've said:

"Seems to me that treating someone differently because of race/whatever is the sort of thing we're supposed to be TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM! Remember that whole "content of his character" thing?"

Your absolutely right, but at the same time, Jewish people are still very sensitive about the holocaust, and rightly so. Several of my Jewish friends lost parents and grandparents in the holocaust. The killing wasn't always the worst thing, there was rape, torture, mad science and starvation. We are getting away from it, but it's a wound that's going to take time to heal.

There is plenty of fertile ground to work with the Jewish issue, in the light of Jewish teachings. This website provides background information on the Jewish views on gun control. Jewish Views on Gun Control That is the kind of factual information we need to hit people with, not calling people Nazi's and Heil Heil, that simply breaks Godwin's Law and makes us all look bad.

We - as a nation - are where we are because *We* (conservatives/constitutionalists/whatever) have continued to "play by the rules" of civility while The Enemy has been at war. It's time we realize this isn't a friendly discussion at the Country Club, it's a down-and-dirty street-fight, the outcome of which will determine whether my kids and grandkids get to live in America or in "That Place Where America Used To Be." "Robert's Rules" just don't apply!

We aren't all hardcore conservatives here. We have Democrats, Libertarians, Independents, all range of political views. MSI intentionally avoids affiliating with any political orientation other than Pro-2nd Amendment.

*IF* Frosh is jewish, he doesn't deserve a "pass" -- IMNSHO he deserves even LESS courtesy -- because he of all people ought to know better!

I couldn't agree more, but as I said, the solution is not to walk into a hearing and start seig heiling him. Hit his constituents with facts, not with name calling.

Maybe I'm the only one who's noticed, but "political correctness" is among the most insidious (and sadly successful) forms of tyranny The Enemy has imposed upon us. We spend all our time walking on eggshells and STILL end up forced to defend ourselves from the BS they twist out of context...

We live in Maryland, we have to play by their rules. We don't control the game. It's a pain in the butt, but they control the game, and it's a rigged game. And Maryland Gun Owners time after time fall for their traps. We can't change the game yet, and behaving how they expect us to behave is going to move us farther and farther from being able to change the game.

 

[SirMrManGuy]

I've frequently wished we could have a greater minority participation in MSI. Not that we need any affirmative action or anything, but just to give us a wider perspective and reach.

I'm Jewish and a gun owner. I'm also a registered Democrat (gasp! .) Frankly as much as MDshooters/MSI tries to be a single issue site, the discussions are majorly conservative and that tends to scare away some who might join and participate as many minorities are liberal. I can't stand terms like "libretard" but I tend to overlook it because of the otherwise good commentary and discussion here. I'm liberal, I'm proud of it and I want my 2A rights. Keeping the board and discussions party neutral, and doing things like removing images of Obama as a socialist dictator from peoples signatures would probably go a long way.

To the OP:I'd stay far away from the Nazi comparisons, it's not something to be taken lightly at all. To put the emotions in perspective, prior to WWII there were about 18 million Jews in the world (we are less than .3 % of the worlds population), Hitler murdered over 6 million of us in cold blood. Understand that each and every one of us was involved or knows someone who was involved in the holocaust. Today our population hasn't even returned to pre WWII levels. Seeing our freely elected leaders compared to the mass murderer of our brothers, sisters, parents and grandparents is not something we take in jest and are going to respond to.