MSP Got one... Instructor caught cutting corners, permits invalidated.

[Tower43]

Drew Green was caught by MSP not meeting their standards. They've revoked all permits issued related to his classes. To his credit, he called my buddy (who took his class) and is getting him in with a new QHIC for no cost.

MSP inserted an "agent" to relay back to the state the quality of instruction. Be warned.

 

[Johnconlee]

This is likely the beginning of the “my permit got invalidated because my instructor cut corners” sticky thread.

 

[Spaceballs]

Any word on exactly what corners were cut?

This could range from valid complaints kike "We only stayed there 15 minutes and the instructor signed off that we completed everything" to petty nonsense like "The instructor counted touching the 8 ring line as a hit but MSP thinks that is a miss"

 

[csanc123]

Drew Green was caught by MSP not meeting their standards. They've revoked all permits issued related to his classes. To his credit, he called my buddy (who took his class) and is getting him in with a new QHIC for no cost.

MSP inserted an "agent" to relay back to the state the quality of instruction. Be warned.

Since "quality" can be subjective....is there any info what exactly was the issue? Was length cut short because everything required was covered and thus the '16' hours was not met or is it a matter of wholly 'missing' elements of the MSP suggested course outline? Any clue what the issue was?

 

[LuckyShot]

welp, there goes half the instructors lmao

 

[Bertfish]

There was a gentleman at the MSI meeting discussing this afterwards. Someone in his class had reported him for skipping the shooting requirement and he had a hearing coming up. He was adamant it was contrived and offered to show MSP the many thousands of dollars in ammo and guns he had bought to complete the live fire portion with his students.

 

[Spaceballs]

Since "quality" can be subjective....is there any info what exactly was the issue? Was length cut short because everything required was covered and thus the '16' hours was not met or is it a matter of wholly 'missing' elements of the MSP suggested course outline? Any clue what the issue was?

That is how EVERY SINGLE continuing education course I ever took in Maryland for my professional license went.

One time an auditor showed up to sit in on the class and the instructor didn't know how to fill the other 59 minutes of the hour.

 

[Spaceballs]

There was a gentleman at the MSI meeting discussing this afterwards. Someone in his class had reported him for skipping the shooting requirement and he had a hearing coming up. He was adamant it was contrived and offered to show MSP the many thousands of dollars in ammo and guns he had bought to complete the live fire portion with his students.

So MSP invalidated licenses without a hearing first?

Seems illegal.

 

[JoeyBones32]

Yeah, I'd think they'd have to prove every class taught was substandard. Unless he admitted to it. Who knows.

 

[Bertfish]

So MSP invalidated licenses without a hearing first?

Seems illegal.

No he was having the hearing because of the report which was made

 

[jr88]

I don't think all previous students should have their license revoked. Force the instructor to refund for any class found to not meet standards and let those students retake the course somewhere else. All the different info out there makes it impossible to even know what the hell the class is to cover in the first place.
Why not have a written exam to be taken and a documented target showing shooter proficiency, DONE. While many don't need 16 hours, others may need much more time to obtain required knowledge and skill. Honestly I don't like the idea of jumping through undefined hoops to exercise a constitutional right, but once .gov gets involved this is what you get.

 

[mauser58]

Anyone know what county or area the classes were held?

 

[Spaceballs]

No he was having the hearing because of the report which was made

Has the hearing been completed?

Seems wrong to invalidate permits based on an accusation until guilt has been established at a formal hearing.

I know I read that somewhere...

 

[Spaceballs]

I don't think all previous students should have their license revoked. Force the instructor to refund for any class found to not meet standards and let those students retake the course somewhere else. All the different info out there makes it impossible to even know what the hell the class is to cover in the first place.
Why not have a written exam to be taken and a documented target showing shooter proficiency, DONE. While many don't need 16 hours, others may need much more time to obtain required knowledge and skill. Honestly I don't like the idea of jumping through undefined hoops to exercise a constitutional right, but once .gov gets involved this is what you get.

Quotes because this is worth repeating.

 

[Bob A]

Time for Bloomberg, Soros and their ilk to start paying ringers from Demanding Moms, Everytown et al to go to class and file complaints. Doesn't matter if the class goes the full 16 hours.

Anyone think that this has not been discussed?

 

[Brychan]

I hope if people get their permits revoked for the instructor cheating or just trimming a little off the class time, that they get a lawyer and sue the state for arbitrary requirements for a set number of hours required, but fail to provide a 16 hour course training plan, resulting in a extended second delay of the right. As long as they are at it sue for the requirement to have to pay big bucks in money and time in the first place for training before being allowed the permission to exercise said right.

 

[BeoBill]

I don't think all previous students should have their license revoked. Force the instructor to refund for any class found to not meet standards and let those students retake the course somewhere else. All the different info out there makes it impossible to even know what the hell the class is to cover in the first place.
Why not have a written exam to be taken and a documented target showing shooter proficiency, DONE. While many don't need 16 hours, others may need much more time to obtain required knowledge and skill. Honestly I don't like the idea of jumping through undefined hoops to exercise a constitutional right, but once .gov gets involved this is what you get.

This is what you get when imbeciles write a law. As Sgt. Pickle keeps stressing: "The law says 16 hours of training." That's about the end of the hard and fast specific requirements.

 

[Stoveman]

Hmmm.....

 

[Brychan]

Feel sorry if anyone in the 2 application waiting threads that has received or is counting down has to not pass go, not collect $200 (permit) and head to the back of the line.

 

[outrider58]

Hmmm.....
View attachment 380639

I have a question: Do I really have to shoot a gun(in my best whiny voice)?

Lol!