MD SBR Regs

[Bananas79]

With the 2013 Assault Rifle regs - where you can't have 2 or more features regarding folding stock, flash suppressor and grenade launcher ---

1) Am I correct in thinking those regs are moot with an SBR, because a SBR is technically not a rifle?

Asking because I'm interested in the new SIG MPX SPEAR LT lineup that came out this week -- which all have folding stocks I believe.

2) And semi related question... I heard somewhere that MSP consider all cans to be 'flash supporessors' --- any validity to that?

Thanks in adv!

 

[erwos]

MD considers to be SBRs to be rifles, which is why you cannot go below 29" OAL on them. You could make an argument they shouldn't, but they do, and the law is unclear enough that they're going to win.

All suppressors are flash hiders due to their actual function, which greatly reduces flash. That's not debatable by any rational person.

 

[RRomig]

MD considers to be SBRs to be rifles, which is why you cannot go below 29" OAL on them. You could make an argument they shouldn't, but they do, and the law is unclear enough that they're going to win.

All suppressors are flash hiders due to their actual function, which greatly reduces flash. That's not debatable by any rational person.

Sense when are laws rational. MD uses the term flash suppressor. Search the internet for flash suppressors and you’ll see exactly what they are. Look up Silencers (ATF legal terminology) and you’ll see what they are. Not the same thing as far as 99% of the country is concerned regardless of function they provide. In reality cans hide flash and flash suppressors hardly do anything.

 

[Bananas79]

MD considers to be SBRs to be rifles, which is why you cannot go below 29" OAL on them. You could make an argument they shouldn't, but they do, and the law is unclear enough that they're going to win.

All suppressors are flash hiders due to their actual function, which greatly reduces flash. That's not debatable by any rational person.

Thank you… but I’m still not thinking this is correct. You can have rifles on the MD banned list of they are SBR… I’m fairly certain they are classified in MD as SBR and not rifles — but I would love to hear from others

 

[erwos]

Thank you… but I’m still not thinking this is correct. You can have rifles on the MD banned list of they are SBR… I’m fairly certain they are classified in MD as SBR and not rifles — but I would love to hear from others

With all due respect, you are incorrect. Named rifle list ("copy") and the copycat tests ("copycat") are two separate things in the law. Named rifles list was never intended to encompass SBRs and deliberately excluded such guns (example: Galil AR and ARM are on there, the SAR is not; this was not an accident). This was still the case pre-2013, incidentally. Copycat weapons test part of the law makes no such distinction (unfortunately). Strongly suggest reading the law very carefully.

Sense when are laws rational. MD uses the term flash suppressor. Search the internet for flash suppressors and you’ll see exactly what they are. Look up Silencers (ATF legal terminology) and you’ll see what they are. Not the same thing as far as 99% of the country is concerned regardless of function they provide. In reality cans hide flash and flash suppressors hardly do anything.

Maryland law defines what a flash suppressor is, and a suppressor meets the definition handily. I'm sorry I used the "rational" trigger word.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Maryland treats SBRs simultaneously as Rifles and Handguns . This is Maryland , logic does not apply . Trying to make sense of it will only frustrate you .

Post '13 SBR indeed must comply with the 29 inch OAL , etc.

Some Grandfathered pre October SBRs get around this , but unless you have a time machine , that won't help you now .

 

[jcutonilli]

Maryland treats SBRs simultaneously as Rifles and Handguns . This is Maryland , logic does not apply . Trying to make sense of it will only frustrate you .

Post '13 SBR indeed must comply with the 29 inch OAL , etc.

Some Grandfathered pre October SBRs get around this , but unless you have a time machine , that won't help you now .

That is not technically correct. SBRs may be rifles and handguns depending on the section of the law that you are reading. The confusion comes because the definition of a handgun changes depending on what section of the law you are reading. Read the definitions that apply to the section you are reading and you will not have a problem.

They are considered handguns under Public Safety Title 5 Subtitle 1 (Regulated Firearms), but not under Public Safety Title 5 Subtitle 4 (Handgun Roster)
There is no specific definition of handgun or rifle used in Criminal Law Title 4 Subtitle 3 ("Assault Weapons" and Detachable Mags) but an SBR is considered a rifle under the commonly accepted definition of rifle so the "copycat weapon" definition may apply. "Copycat weapons" are currently banned by law.

(h)(1) “Copycat weapon” means:
(i) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that can accept a detachable magazine and has any two of the following:
1. a folding stock;
2. a grenade launcher or flare launcher; or
3. a flash suppressor;
(ii) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds;
(iii) a semiautomatic centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 29 inches;
(iv) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds;
(v) a semiautomatic shotgun that has a folding stock; or
(vi) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
(2) “Copycat weapon” does not include an assault long gun or an assault pistol.

The feature list and OAL only apply to semiautomatic centerfire rifles so nonsemiautos and rimfire rifles do not have those limitations

 

[Biggfoot44]

Ok , you cought me on the semantics , that I ironically invoke on others on occasion.

Remove the word " simultaneously " , and substitute the phrase " Are alternately a Rifle Or Handgun depending upon context , and exact statute being applied , and even more confusing for average gun owner , much less average citizen to understand where and why either would apply " .

 

[erwos]

They are considered handguns under Public Safety Title 5 Subtitle 1 (Regulated Firearms), but not under Public Safety Title 5 Subtitle 4 (Handgun Roster)
There is no specific definition of handgun or rifle used in Criminal Law Title 4 Subtitle 3 ("Assault Weapons" and Detachable Mags) but an SBR is considered a rifle under the commonly accepted definition of rifle so the "copycat weapon" definition may apply. "Copycat weapons" are currently banned by law.

Nailed it. Good summary of the problem at hand.

 

[outrider58]

Basically, an SBR is considered a pistol during transport and subject to the same rules therein.

 

[Bananas79]

ok... but you can SBR an AK47 in MD legally. Which is a rifle banned by name.

So... your saying I can't have a folding stock and can on a SBR that is over 29" --- because the '13 rifle assault ban prohibitss a folding stock and flash suppressor on a rifle??

 

[Bananas79]

ok... but you can SBR an AK47 in MD legally. Which is a rifle banned by name.

So... your saying I can't have a folding stock and can on a SBR that is over 29" --- because the '13 rifle assault ban prohibitss a folding stock and flash suppressor on a rifle??

ah crap. its not a SBR -- its a pistol brace.

But I swear you could SBR a rifle on the banned list. I thought for sure I came across people talking about SBR'ing banned HK rifles in MD. Maybe that was a dream...

UGH. Really wanted to get that new sig MPX SPEAR in 11.5"

 

[outrider58]

ah crap. its not a SBR -- its a pistol brace.

But I swear you could SBR a rifle on the banned list. I thought for sure I came across people talking about SBR'ing banned HK rifles in MD. Maybe that was a dream...

UGH. Really wanted to get that new sig MPX SPEAR in 11.5"

If it is a pistol (brace), you would be able to buy it, but only if it is on the handgun roster. From there, you could SBR it as long as you are able to put a long enough stock on it.

ETA: Not on the roster yet.

 

[RRomig]

Maryland law defines what a flash suppressor is, and a suppressor meets the definition handily. I'm sorry I used the "rational" trigger word.

Lol, it did trigger a rational response which as usual proved to be wrong. Thanks for the clarification !
I don’t have any of the additional deadly sins on my rifles so I’m good but I will let some people I know with folders and cans.
Thanks

 

[jcutonilli]

ok... but you can SBR an AK47 in MD legally. Which is a rifle banned by name.

So... your saying I can't have a folding stock and can on a SBR that is over 29" --- because the '13 rifle assault ban prohibitss a folding stock and flash suppressor on a rifle??

This is what the MSP website https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organization/Pages/CriminalInvestigationBureau/LicensingDivision/FAQs.aspx says

May I build my lower receiver purchased after 10/1/2013 into an assault long gun?
No, a lower receiver of a banned assault long gun purchased after 10/1/2013 may be built—provided there is compliance with federal and other state laws—only into a handgun, a short barreled rifle that has an overall length of 29 inches or greater, or if the lower receiver is an AR15 platform, into a heavy barrel model.

The law is more nuanced than that. A semiauto centerfire rifle with a folding stock and flash suppressor is a copycat weapon and prohibited under that provision.

The law defines flash suppressor as

(j) “Flash suppressor” means a device that functions, or is intended to function, to perceptibly reduce or redirect muzzle flash from the shooter's field of vision.

It would seem to me that a suppressor/silencer would meet that definition.

It should be noted that one can continue to possess a "copycat weapon" if they possessed it on or before Oct 1, 2013.

 

[teratos]

Lol, it did trigger a rational response which as usual proved to be wrong. Thanks for the clarification !
I don’t have any of the additional deadly sins on my rifles so I’m good but I will let some people I know with folders and cans.
Thanks

I have folders and cans on pre-13 rifles and I'm keeping them that way.

 

[RRomig]

I have folders and cans on pre-13 rifles and I'm keeping them that way.

I’ve never understood MDs pick and choose bs but have always tried to appreciate the things we have and not dwell on the things we don’t. I’m very happy living in MD and never see myself leaving but a cabin in WV is a real possibility.

 

[boothdoc]

Has anybody SBR’d a M1A?

 

[outrider58]

Has anybody SBR’d a M1A?

Can you go shorter than the M1A tanker(16.25" barrel)?

 

[erwos]

Can you go shorter than the M1A tanker(16.25" barrel)?

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