Lt. Gov. Town Halls on "Public Safety"

[dblas]

I was there. Someone to the right of me and I both asked about the firearm classes. Unsurprisingly, they seem to have no idea where they will be conducted, the logistics of training a large number of people, or even how everything will be funded.

That was probably me bringing up the fact of the practical knowledge part of the training and that renting a firearm may be required for a first time firearms owner.

My question was how do they rent one without the required "Registered Firearms Qualification License?"

The answer from Tammy Brown (Executive Director, Governor's Office of Crime Control and Prevention) was that the firearms instructors would provide the firearms for the practical training.

When I asked her how many firearms trainers provide the firearms for all of their student for practical application, she had no clue.

Not any clue as to the cost to the instructor to buy, store, maintain, and supply ammo for those firearms either.

 

[hvymax]

On the bright side, I had a good conversation with one lady sitting behind me that wanted to learn more. She has my contact information along with an open invitation to go to the range to look at, hold and shoot (if she likes) andy of my firearms.

After her I was having another conversation with another lady, and unfortunately several guys tried to help by debating every point instead of having a conversation. No offense meant to those that jumped in, but that is exactly what you did and actually did more harm than good. Up until that point it was a civil conversation, after that point it became and arguement of debate.

Guilty and sorry about that. I just cannot comprehend where some of them are coming from. They are enthusiastic about taking away almost everything I value even though it is proven to make things worse. It was like if you all sacrifice your guns for the good of mankind then Unicorns will fart rainbows through Barry Farms.(Well they would have easier pickings of the rest of us anyway)

 

[lx1x]

That was probably me bringing up the fact of the practical knowledge part of the training and that renting a firearm may be required for a first time firearms owner.

My question was how do they rent one without the required "Registered Firearms Qualification License?"

The answer from Tammy Brown (Executive Director, Governor's Office of Crime Control and Prevention) was that the firearms instructors would provide the firearms for the practical training.

When I asked her how many firearms trainers provide the firearms for all of their student for practical application, she had no clue.

Not any clue as to the cost to the instructor to buy, store, maintain, and supply ammo for those firearms either.

Which will end to high price training that some people don't have money for. They don't get that part,

 

[webb297]

Quote:
Originally Posted by camirish1 View Post
I was there. Someone to the right of me and I both asked about the firearm classes. Unsurprisingly, they seem to have no idea where they will be conducted, the logistics of training a large number of people, or even how everything will be funded.
That was probably me bringing up the fact of the practical knowledge part of the training and that renting a firearm may be required for a first time firearms owner.

My question was how do they rent one without the required "Registered Firearms Qualification License?"

The answer from Tammy Brown (Executive Director, Governor's Office of Crime Control and Prevention) was that the firearms instructors would provide the firearms for the practical training.

When I asked her how many firearms trainers provide the firearms for all of their student for practical application, she had no clue.

Not any clue as to the cost to the instructor to buy, store, maintain, and supply ammo for those firearms either.

That was a very good point. It was right after that that they said for the 9th time that it was a preliminary bill. That they appreciated the fed back. ummmmm, yea, No you dont.

 

[Goateggs]

Whelp.... our government has officially failed us. This is it. I don't know how much more of this I can take.

I'm going to run for office.

Taking you at your word, if you need someone with database mgmt and opinion polling experience, give me a nod. And read this, if you haven't already:

http://www.amazon.com/Take-Back-Government-Robert-Heinlein/dp/1612420613/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1360126432&sr=8-2&keywords=heinlein+take+back+your+government

 

[dblas]

Guilty and sorry about that. I just cannot comprehend where some of them are coming from. They are enthusiastic about taking away almost everything I value even though it is proven to make things worse.

She has 17+ years of life experience of living in SE DC (Annacostia) to go on (gun violence, personal violence, etc.), you can't debate that away, you have to have a conversation and find a way to get inside that, use that in to get her to answer your questions and get her to think. You don't start spouting off statistics, and anecdotal information to try and turn her. I was almost there, but, well......then it went sideways.

Dude, you really did come off as being a nut and someone that probably shouldn't have a firearm (not just my observation but others that support us as well). Speaking to the committee, you did fine, speaking one on one, you have some work to do. Not bashing, just constructive criticism.

See you tomorrow in Annapolis tomorrow.

DB

 

[Inigoes]

But did it save even one life? That's what we're up against, statistics don't have the emotional appeal.

Nope, Columbine ring a bell?

The perp used a hi-point carbine and 10 rd mags.

 

[Ripfubar]

She has 17+ years of life experience of living in SE DC (Annacostia) to go on (gun violence, personal violence, etc.), you can't debate that away, you have to have a conversation and find a way to get inside that, use that in to get her to answer your questions and get her to think. You don't start spouting off statistics, and anecdotal information to try and turn her. I was almost there, but, well......then it went sideways.

Dude, you really did come off as being a nut and someone that probably shouldn't have a firearm (not just my observation but others that support us as well). Speaking to the committee, you did fine, speaking one on one, you have some work to do. Not bashing, just constructive criticism.

See you tomorrow in Annapolis tomorrow.

DB

If this happens again you can just use it to your advantage by floating the question: What do you think will be worse? When the pro-gun side wins and the anti-gun extremist go nuts or when the gun-grabbers win and our pro-gun extremist go nuts?....Who wins then?

 

[hvymax]

I guess I do get a little zealous. I have spent my entire adult life not doing things in the name of protecting my franchise. Now we have people claiming if WE would just sacrifice our rights for the greater good then we will all live in peace and ride rainbow farting unicorns.
Back in the 40's people were told if they got on the nice train it would take them to a wonderful place where they live in peace and be happy. I suppose they were but I will not be voluntarily be getting on any trains unless it is to another state with ALL of my guns.

 

[MovingFusion]

http://www.gazette.net/article/2013...akes-aim-at-guns-in-maryland&template=gazette

This article doesn't seem to capture the solid pro-2A sentiment that was present at the Baltimore forum...not surprised, but disappointed nonetheless.

 

[erwos]

I was listening to WAMU this morning, and they reported it as a debacle for the state. Lots of angry gun owners getting in Lt Gov Brown's face.

 

[6-Pack]

http://www.gazette.net/article/2013...akes-aim-at-guns-in-maryland&template=gazette

This article doesn't seem to capture the solid pro-2A sentiment that was present at the Baltimore forum...not surprised, but disappointed nonetheless.

The site says "article no longer available"

 

[webb297]

I was listening to WAMU this morning, and they reported it as a debacle for the state. Lots of angry gun owners getting in Lt Gov Brown's face.

Thats disappointing. I don't remember even one person asking a direct question to to the Lt Gov. It was a bit of a debacle for the state though, but that was because nobody on the front row of tables knew what was in the law (or would admit to it), and there were few people there who were not already elected or appointed officials who spoke in favor of the law.

 

[Wapato]

She has 17+ years of life experience of living in SE DC (Annacostia) to go on (gun violence, personal violence, etc.), you can't debate that away, you have to have a conversation and find a way to get inside that, use that in to get her to answer your questions and get her to think. You don't start spouting off statistics, and anecdotal information to try and turn her. I was almost there, but, well......then it went sideways.

Dude, you really did come off as being a nut and someone that probably shouldn't have a firearm (not just my observation but others that support us as well). Speaking to the committee, you did fine, speaking one on one, you have some work to do. Not bashing, just constructive criticism.

See you tomorrow in Annapolis tomorrow.

DB

+1

For my 2 cents I'd like to add that people need to understand when to debate and when to have a dialog/conversation.

In a debate you're trying to convince a third party that you're right. The techniques that are effective in a debate will often leave your opponent thinking you're a jerkwad and the adversarial approach alone often only makes you opponent more set in their positions even if you play it "clean".

What that means is that you can't use those techniques if you're trying to change someones mind as opposed to burning them to convince someone else. You need to do a lot of listening to get a handle on what they know, don't know, and what their positions are. Often I find your best approach is letting them know what values you share, explaining why you want achieve the same things, and then try to fill in the blanks they don't know.

For example in talking to co-workers I'm surprised to find that many think that the assault weapons that Obama is trying to ban are fully automatic and the rounds they fire are much more powerful than other rifle rounds. Often they will change their position when you lay out exactly what the government is trying to ban.

However if I start hopping up and down about my rights while they think I'm arguing that I want to buy a fully automatic gun designed to take out tanks and small buildings it isn't going to go well.

 

[ChannelCat]

http://www.gazette.net/article/2013...akes-aim-at-guns-in-maryland&template=gazette

This article doesn't seem to capture the solid pro-2A sentiment that was present at the Baltimore forum...not surprised, but disappointed nonetheless.

When one reads this propaganda, one is led to believe that this town hall was the Sarah Brady love fest that the rulers were envisioning when they planned it. The problem is, if a lie is told enough times, people start believing it...

 

[Bohlieve410]

If anyone is coming to Rockville, let's have a pre-hearing meet and greet. Please see this thread!!

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=105227

 

[Inigoes]

Who's on duty tonight?

 

[Bohlieve410]

Who's on duty tonight?

Me and a few others. Think it was suggested to meet at Tara Asia restaraunt. So I'd suggest 6:30 which gives us an hour to BS, maybe eat a little and get ready. it's at 199 Maryland Avenue, same street as the town hall.

I have no friggin clue what to say but we only have 1 minute.

 

[Inigoes]

Video tape, record and be polite.

Themes:

- Licensing

The Supreme Court says we have a fundamental right to self-defense using firearms in common use. They also said the second amendment is equivalent to the first, fourth and fifth. Your law will make people pay hundreds of dollars to exercise a civil right.

Q1: How can you support laws that make people pay the state for civil rights?

Q2: What other rights are you willing to make us pay the state for?

Q3: Has their been a single right in the history of the US that the government makes people pay for, that is now viewed as anything but discriminatory and illegal?

Q4: This law will make it much harder for poor and disadvantaged people to purchase a handgun for home defense. Why are you disenfranchising our rights, and why are you reserving this civil right only for rick people like you?

- AWB/Registration

Your law will require people to register within 30 days. After that they face prison time.

Q1: Do you think it is right to put someone is prison for owning a firearm in 2013 that you gave them permission to buy in 2012, just because they did not know they had to register it?

Q2: What you call "assault weapons" are nothing more than hunting rifles with cosmetic features. MSP Superintendent Brown actually said in the last town hall that the ban should only apply to full automatic machine guns. Are you now admitting that my hunting rifle is also going to be banned?

Q3: The state police keeps a registry of every single regulated firearm (handguns and current AWs) that have been transferred since 1996. Isn't this true? If so, why are you making us do this again, under penalty of prison?

Q4: How many people were killed in all of Maryland last year by someone using what you now call an "Assault Weapon"? (Answer: only 3 murders with long guns and none appear to qualify as an AW under the law...so it looks like zero)

Q5: The state cannot point to a single person all of last year who was murdered by someone using what you call an "Assault Rifle". Why are you banning the most popular rifle in the nation, even though they are not used in crime?

Q6: The governor says an AR-15 is only useful to kill many people. The MSP tells the Maryland Legislature there are more than 50,000 of them in this state. So how come nobody was murdered with one in Maryland last year?

- Penalties

If someone does not know to register their hunting rifle with you in the 30-days they have, they face a misdemeanor punishable by up to 3 years. Anything conviction on a crime that could have been punished by 2 years or more - even if pled down to nothing but a fine - causes a lifetime prohibition on the ownership of any firearm under federal law. It also causes the loss of a security clearance, likely loss of jobs at any firm that does a background check, and will also cause loans to be denied.

Q1: If the only thing I do is fail to register because I forget, am out of town, sick or don't know to do it - why are you looking to destroy my life for not doing paperwork?

Q2: The Supreme Court has previously ruled that no prohibited person or felon can be charged with not registering their firearms, because it would violate their fifth amendment right to not incriminate themselves. This law and these extreme penalties can only be used to prosecute otherwise lawful people and turn them into lifetime criminals. Why are looking to covert lawful people into unlawful people?

Q3: Would you send you son or daughter to jail for failing to fill out paperwork?


Retorts:

"We require people to have driver's licenses..."

Driving is not a fundamental constitutionally protected civil right. The Supreme Court said this is a civil right, and that it is equivalent to the First Amendment. The better analogy is the state forcing me to get a license to go to church.


"The Second Amendment protects muskets..."

Only if the First protects 200 year old printing presses and ignores TV, internet, radio, etc.

Shamelessly stolen from Patrick, if any of you need help.

Also dig into the MSP Colonel about what he meant by select fire in Baltimore.

 

[Bohlieve410]

BADASS. Thanks!!! Gonna print some.