Let's Talk About Bear Defense for an 82-Year Old.

[Crosseye Dominant]

We haven't really given enough thought to converting the golf cart to a Technical.

 

[Nanook]

I didn't read all the way through. Depending on what kind of shape he's in for 82, I'd bet improperly dealt-with recoil of an 'appropriate firearm' would hurt him almost as much as not shooting a charging bear that will *actually* make contact.

Bear spray. If I used a golf cart to commute, I'd have a canister mounted to a pole opposite the fire extinguisher. Remind him to take a big breath and hold it THEN spray.

 

[smoking gun]

I want to buy my dad a pistol for self defense against bears. He keeps encountering them on his property in Western Penna. The only pistols my dad owns are a .22 Mag, a .380 ACP, and a .357 Mag. So far, I've been told to buy my dad either a .44 Mag with a short barrel or one of those Judge revolvers with .410 00 buck. I'm leaning toward the .44. Any thoughts from you handgun experts?

Since we have a large bear population in Alaska, I'll chime in here.

I took a concealed carry class years ago, and the instructor (Joe Nava) spoke of killing a black bear with a 357 mag, also a bison which had crashed over a fence and charged, during a herd count event. Single shot each time. He recommended the 357 as equal to the task.
That tells me that a 357 will do the job in the hands of a competent shooter.
My personal carry when hunting moose is a 44 mag, just in case of an unexpected sudden encounter, but I'm proficient and have no problem with the recoil. I have an old FIE revolver with a 6 3/4" barrel, and it only has a couple hundred rounds through it, max.
The 357 will be much easier to handle any recoil, even with a heavy bullet.

Kudos to your dad for getting out there, and you for thinking of him.

 

[smoking gun]

Years ago, seeing sows with cubs in the spring and summer was a normal thing that happened all the time. But they always kept their distance and rarely came anywhere near the cabin. Seeing a boar was very rare.

Encounters have been increasing over the past couple decades. They are apparently becoming less and less shy of humans. Last fall, I watched a young male spend 20 minutes trying to get to the birdfeeder 30 feet from the back door. I yelled at it and it just shot me a look like "Are you talking to me?" Last week, my dad was making a run to the mailbox in his golf cart. About half way down his 1,000 foot driveway he found himself within 50 yards of a sow with 3 newborn cubs. She was between him and her cubs. Nonetheless she started walking toward him slowly. He started beeping his horn and yelling and backing up (he knows not to run), but she kept coming. He said it took her a full minute to decide to walk away (possibly exaggerated a little). I hear similar stories from my parents or their neighbors every year.

He used to have 2 strong labs. They died from old age a couple years ago. I think he needs to keep a gun in his golf cart, but he doesn't own anything appropriate.

My theory is a combination of three things:
1. Very few people hunt the area. Most private lands are posted no hunting for insurance liability reasons.
2. The Millennials who inherited their grandfather's cabins are making serious bank by renting them out through Air BnB. Idiot summer vacationers do not know how to manage their trash. Bears used to associate cabins with crotchety old men and barking dogs. Now they associate cabins with scavenging. And, few renters bring intimidating dogs with them.
3. When Air BnB vacationers see a bear, they want to shoot a video of it from the safety of the cabin window and post it on social media. No one is yelling at these bears and teaching them to stay away from the cabins.

Concerning the suggestion of a dog. There are many accounts of dogs chasing bears, and when the bear turns on them, running to the owner for protection, leading the angry bear directly back to the owner.
Not something I would suggest, unless the dog was well trained, fearless and able to take on a bear. A pretty rare breed.
A 357 will be smaller and easier to handle and holster than a 44 mag. Weapons that are a hassle to use just don't get used as much as one that's easy and convenient.
Since I just read the post above about your dad using the golf cart, I would recommend a combo of bear spray in a convenient holder, maybe strapped to the roof support, and a 357 for backup in a holster mounted to the cart, but which could be removed and carried easily.

 

[dontallo]

Thank you, everyone, for your advice. I think I've reached a decision on an approach.

I've decided against a handgun. Dad is going to be under stress. He's most likely to limp wrist a 10mm, shooting over the bear's head and stovepiping the ejection port. Any revolver, .357, .44, or otherwise, is likely going in the dirt between the bear's front paws.

We've talked to his friends and come up with a strategy.

1st line of defense: The problem is not just bears, but also coyotes and other vermin. The county is aware and has agreed to mail everyone a wildlife safety pamphlet, which includes information on managing trash. But they do not have any authority to enforce compliance.

2nd line of defense: One of the old coots in the area used to be an attorney. He's going to write all the millennials a letter reminding them that they are responsible for their Airbnb tenants and that the community will hold them responsible for any property damage or personal injuries that may result from their tenants' failure to properly manage their trash. It's meaningless legally, but might result in some changes in behaviors.

3rd line of defense: I shipped Dad a 120 dB air horn to keep in his cart. I think that will be much more effective than the horn he has on his golf cart.

4th line of defense: I shipped him a cannister of Udap bear spray. I will affix the holster to the dashboard of his golf cart next time I am up there.

5th line of defense: Dad's been shooting a shotgun his whole life. He understands the platform and is competent with it. I have an 18.5" Mossberg 500 Marinecoat that has been sitting in my gun cabinet for 12 years, since we sold the boat (a.k.a., the whole in the water that I used to throw my money into). I ordered a Kevlar scabbard and will mount it to his golf cart. 3" 000 buckshot might be adequate for a black bear (it's Pennsylvania, not Alaska). Worst case, it gives him some peace of mind.

6th line of defense: All the old coots in the area are going to do similar and know that the sound of an air horn means someone is in trouble. Get in your truck and go help.

F@ck these self-absorbed millennials who don't know sh!t about living in the mountains. They maybe visited their grandpa's cabin 20 years ago as kids. All they can see is the $750 to $1,000 per week they get for summer rentals and zero shits are given for the residents who lived there for their entire lives.

 

[smoking gun]

Thank you, everyone, for your advice. I think I've reached a decision on an approach.

I've decided against a handgun. Dad is going to be under stress. He's most likely to limp wrist a 10mm, shooting over the bear's head and stovepiping the ejection port. Any revolver, .357, .44, or otherwise, is likely going in the dirt between the bear's front paws.

We've talked to his friends and come up with a strategy.

1st line of defense: The problem is not just bears, but also coyotes and other vermin. The county is aware and has agreed to mail everyone a wildlife safety pamphlet, which includes information on managing trash. But they do not have any authority to enforce compliance.

2nd line of defense: One of the old coots in the area used to be an attorney. He's going to write all the millennials a letter reminding them that they are responsible for their Airbnb tenants and that the community will hold them responsible for any property damage or personal injuries that may result from their tenants' failure to properly manage their trash. It's meaningless legally, but might result in some changes in behaviors.

3rd line of defense: I shipped Dad a 120 dB air horn to keep in his cart. I think that will be much more effective than the horn he has on his golf cart.

4th line of defense: I shipped him a cannister of Udap bear spray. I will affix the holster to the dashboard of his golf cart next time I am up there.

5th line of defense: Dad's been shooting a shotgun his whole life. He understands the platform and is competent with it. I have an 18.5" Mossberg 500 Marinecoat that has been sitting in my gun cabinet for 12 years, since we sold the boat (a.k.a., the whole in the water that I used to throw my money into). I ordered a Kevlar scabbard and will mount it to his golf cart. 3" 000 buckshot might be adequate for a black bear (it's Pennsylvania, not Alaska). Worst case, it gives him some peace of mind.

6th line of defense: All the old coots in the area are going to do similar and know that the sound of an air horn means someone is in trouble. Get in your truck and go help.

F@ck these self-absorbed millennials who don't know sh!t about living in the mountains. They maybe visited their grandpa's cabin 20 years ago as kids. All they can see is the $750 to $1,000 per week they get for summer rentals and zero shits are given for the residents who lived there for their entire lives.

Not knowing you or your dad personally, I think you've come up with some good actions to take. I like the air horn idea, not something I would have thought of, as I usually sneak in the woods. Bear spray good. Shotgun, fine idea, much easier to aim and shoot, loud bang, should scare the hell out of any bear even if he doesn't hit it.

 

[joppaj]

That seems a well thought out plan.

 

[DeadInside]

Congrats on a thorough plan and getting the community involved.
Now to address the problem long term try to get the community to work together to allow a comprehensive hunting program to try to manage the bear population to lower numbers locally which will lead to less competition for food and less encounters for the residents.

 

[Blaster229]

Has anyone in PA ever been attacked by a black bear? lol They came up to my house often and just ran away when I opened the door. Never have they ever approached me when I saw them outside. They just moseyed on by going to wherever bears mosey to.

 

[Michigander08]

Has anyone in PA ever been attacked by a black bear? lol They came up to my house often and just ran away when I opened the door. Never have they ever approached me when I saw them outside. They just moseyed on by going to wherever bears mosey to.

I have seen black bear in NJ. It ran away across the yard.

When I was hiking in Glacier National Park in Montana, I saw a small grizzly on the ridge far away looking at us cooking breakfast at campsite. It promptly disappeared when we started getting excited and pointing him out. One day on the way back from day hike, we had to paused for 15 minutes in distance to scream and yell at a black bear and cubs wandering around looking for food on the trail and blocking our way. They also went away on their own. Do you think we just got lucky or that is what most people experienced?

 

[308Scout]

I have seen black bear in NJ. It ran away across the yard.

When I was hiking in Glacier National Park in Montana, I saw a small grizzly on the ridge far away looking at us cooking breakfast at campsite. It promptly disappeared when we started getting excited and pointing him out. One day on the way back from day hike, we had to paused for 15 minutes in distance to scream and yell at a black bear and cubs wandering around looking for food on the trail and blocking our way. They also went away on their own. Do you think we just got lucky or that is what most people experienced?

Your experiences seem typical of most of the encounters that I have heard of. Bears typically want nothing to do with humans (food on one's property is a different tale, though). Most bear encounters, particularly when the bear and and human are aware of each other at distance, do not result in a charge. The scenario can change at short range when you startle one or if you try encroaching too closely (or get too close to cubs for a sow's liking).

Same can be said with many venomous snake encounters. Typically, no strike if you you're aware, give a respectable distance, and and don't do anything stupid. Most bites end up being where someone wasn't aware of their proximity to a snake or were doing stupid things en route to winning stupid prizes, like actively harassing them within striking distance.

 

[RoadDawg]

LoL? Yeah… about that…

Pennsylvania woman attacked by bear, dragged more than 80 yards, officials say

Pennsylvania woman Melinda Lebarron is in critical condition following a gruesome black bear attack, officials with the Pennsylvania Game Commission said.

www.foxnews.com

 

[308Scout]

Concerning the suggestion of a dog. There are many accounts of dogs chasing bears, and when the bear turns on them, running to the owner for protection, leading the angry bear directly back to the owner.
Not something I would suggest, unless the dog was well trained, fearless and able to take on a bear. A pretty rare breed.
A 357 will be smaller and easier to handle and holster than a 44 mag. Weapons that are a hassle to use just don't get used as much as one that's easy and convenient.
Since I just read the post above about your dad using the golf cart, I would recommend a combo of bear spray in a convenient holder, maybe strapped to the roof support, and a 357 for backup in a holster mounted to the cart, but which could be removed and carried easily.

Yep - Presence of dogs can also up the risk, depending on their training and behavior. There was an attack in FredCo a couple of years ago that is the exact scenario you describe. The off-leash dog who initiated chase and then ran back to its owner helped precipitate the attack in this incident.

https://www.fredericknewspost.com/n...cle_1378fcb1-b10e-509b-bf74-25c35781f011.html

 

[august1410]

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure an 82 year old bear won't put up much of a fight.

 

[308Scout]

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure an 82 year old bear won't put up much of a fight.

 

[urbantchr]

I want to buy my dad a pistol for self defense against bears. He keeps encountering them on his property in Western Penna. The only pistols my dad owns are a .22 Mag, a .380 ACP, and a .357 Mag. So far, I've been told to buy my dad either a .44 Mag with a short barrel or one of those Judge revolvers with .410 00 buck. I'm leaning toward the .44. Any thoughts from you handgun experts?

Some folks use pepper spray. Some others put bells on their shoes so as not to startle the bear. I prefer situational awareness. I look for scat. If l see bear scat with bells in it, and it smells like pepper l know there is a bear around!

 

[joppaj]

Hoping this video will load... Several of my western friends are sharing this on FB today. I don't know when it where this happened.

 

[John from MD]

Looks like the guy did everything right and the bear repellent worked. It also appears to be a curious young bear not a sow with some cubs nearby.

 

[mvee]

I thought you were supposed to yell at the bear. He seemed to be gently coaxing the curious bear along. The bear spray did it’s job though.

 

[308Scout]

I thought you were supposed to yell at the bear. He seemed to be gently coaxing the curious bear along. The bear spray did it’s job though.

I had a good chuckle when he kept saying "good bear" like he was talking to a friendly puppy. Not exactly intimidating or discouraging.

Good thing the spray did it's job.