Legality question?

[Oliveralan]

Hello,

Hypothetically, is it possible to open a fund for yourself that accepts donations, and then to give people who donate reloads. This is just something i thought up and am wondering about the legality of it. I know you need a license to manufacture ammunition for sale, but if you give it away as a present? like when someone gives you a present for your birthday you generally give them one back?

EDIT: This is totaly hypothetical, i just thought it up this evening and wanted to post it as a topic of discussion...

 

[Inigoes]

Are you willing to accept the liability, in the event there is a catastrophic malfunction?

 

[Spot77]

Since the intent is to circumvent the law, I'd say a charge of conspiracy of some sort would still get applied.

 

[lx1x]

Are you willing to accept the liability, in the event there is a catastrophic malfunction?

what he said..

 

[Oliveralan]

i read about something like this before, but can't find it anymore. I was thinking sign a waiver of some sort? didnt think further since i havent considered doing this. Food for thought.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Unless you are planning to make a real bussiness out of it, think twice about sharing your loads. If you do , have them shoot them in your presence.

 

[MDMOUNTAINEER]

Since the intent is to circumvent the law, I'd say a charge of conspiracy of some sort would still get applied.

While I agree with you.....................................................................
I say this in all seriousness.
What about buying human body parts?

It's illegal to buy human tissue, however, tissue banks charge a fee for the "processing" of human tissue. You aren't actually "buying" human specimens, you are paying for a service (allegedly). Isn't that conspiracy to circumvent the law?

Just sayin'.

As for the reloads deal. It's not worth the jail time and the inability to own firearms for the rest of your life. I'd scrap the idea.

 

[Inigoes]

I was thinking sign a waiver of some sort?

As a consumer; I would never make a purchase from a "vendor" who doesn't stand behind their product.

 

[Oliveralan]

As a consumer; I would never make a purchase from a "vendor" who doesn't stand behind their product.

i sort of agree with you, but what about hospitals for surgery, or paintball arenas?

 

[Inigoes]

i sort of agree with you, but what about hospitals for surgery, or paintball arenas?

Hospitals don't make you sign a waiver, they are legally liable for negligence.

As for the paintball arenas, if they make you sign a hold harmless agreement, doesn't allow them to throw glass in the area. If there is any form of negligence the proprietor is held accountable.

 

[Oliveralan]

Ok, I wasn't trying to be smart, I just remembered signing a waiver saying if you get injured you can't sue.

Ok so a waiver would theoretically work unless the other party can prove negligence? but if it's a malfunction in the gun they can't sue.

Anyway it was just something i thought up, i do plan to get a license and do custom handloads and data work up for people but that's in the future. This is just something i was wondering about.

For now, i will probably just buy or build an annealing machine, and do brass prep for people, or can i get sued there too? probably can....

 

[guthook]

Dude, if you're looking for wink-wink advice on how to skirt the laws on how to get away with the manufacture and sale of your ammunition, take your shit elsewhere. There is no place for that here. I hope this thread gets nuked quickly.

Hopefully I've misunderstood your intentions.

 

[Oliveralan]

yes you have. This was just something i was cooked up while eating dinner.... relax.

 

[DanJo]

I don't think that idea would go over in a court of law. Hookers have tried to use that same argument for years "He gave me a contribution and I gave him a present in return". It's a disguised sale and it will be treated like a sale in the eyes of the law, not a contribution and present.

Plus as previously mentioned, you don't want the liability without corporate insurance coverage.

Keep thinking though............

 

[travistheone]

Payment for service rendered. Simple.

Don't. Also, you must have some serious reloading equipment to make it worthwhile.

 

[CKOD]

Ok, I wasn't trying to be smart, I just remembered signing a waiver saying if you get injured you can't sue.

Ok so a waiver would theoretically work unless the other party can prove negligence? but if it's a malfunction in the gun they can't sue.

Anyway it was just something i thought up, i do plan to get a license and do custom handloads and data work up for people but that's in the future. This is just something i was wondering about.

For now, i will probably just buy or build an annealing machine, and do brass prep for people, or can i get sued there too? probably can....

"The gun worked fine with every other kind of ammunition" and gun manufacturers are pretty quick to blame ammo too, wouldnt want to be you vs remington etc...

As for the annealing machine... yeah you could. What if I get some brass from you that you over annealed, and a case head burst in my rifle? Or since the brass was soft, flowed around the bolt and ceased the bolt in the receiver?

If youre selling something, you are responsible for it being free of defects. If it isnt, and it breaks something, people are gonna want that something fixed or replaced.

 

[Markp]

"The gun worked fine with every other kind of ammunition" and gun manufacturers are pretty quick to blame ammo too, wouldnt want to be you vs remington etc...

As for the annealing machine... yeah you could. What if I get some brass from you that you over annealed, and a case head burst in my rifle? Or since the brass was soft, flowed around the bolt and ceased the bolt in the receiver?

If youre selling something, you are responsible for it being free of defects. If it isnt, and it breaks something, people are gonna want that something fixed or replaced.

This leads me to the question, when you anneal brass, aren't you fully annealing it, and if so, it would be impossible to over-anneal it, would it not?

Mark

 

[Biggfoot44]

The current issue of HANDLOADER has a feature article about setting up , and doing high production neck annealing.
And yes, you are annealing the neck, and somewhat shoulder, and taking care to not heat too far down the case.
I suppose you could endevor to provide "fully preped , match grade brass", but that would seem to be a really narrow niche. To do the work, and turn a profit, will require a worthwhile markup. The average Bubba won't see the point, most serious accuraccy nuts will usually want to do it themselves.
If you are going to get all the equipment yourself anyway for your own use, and while you're at it prep a few extra to try to defray your own component expendatures, good luck.
For a bussiness venture on purpose, be better off to connect with a range or PD, etc, to out bid the scrap price on their fired brass, , and sell it cleaned , and semisorted.

 

[CKOD]

This leads me to the question, when you anneal brass, aren't you fully annealing it, and if so, it would be impossible to over-anneal it, would it not?

Mark

You anneal the case neck and shoulder. (look at the discoloration on any lake city or other military surplus brass, thats what thats from) If you anneal the case head, then that is softened and weakened, and you could get anything from case head separation, to it flowing back into the bolt face and jamming up the works, or worse.