Just what is . . .

[BeoBill]

Even if you get a light sentence or probation..........you won't be able to own a gun legally again. It's a felony.

And THAT factoid, kiddies, is what stopped all that shooting in Baltimore.

 

[shooter56]

A PBJ for this offense would not make you a prohibited person since it would not be a conviction.

You would be prohibited for the duration of your probation period as you are prohibited if you are presently charged with a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year. Your charges will not be dropped until the end of your probation period.

Originally Posted by hairba111
Even if you get a light sentence or probation..........you won't be able to own a gun legally again. It's a felony.

It's not a felony charge, it's a misdemeanor, either way you will be prohibited unless you get a PBJ in which case you will be prohibited during the probation period.

 

[shooter56]

Well, actually, it looks like a PBJ will not get you off. The question on form 77 says: "Have you ever been convicted in Maryland or elsewhere of a misdemeanor which, under Maryland law, carries a maximum penalty of more than 2 years? IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT SENTENCE YOU ACTUALLY RECEIVED, EVEN IF YOU ONLY RECEIVED PROBATION."

 

[mopar92]

Well, actually, it looks like a PBJ will not get you off. The question on form 77 says: "Have you ever been convicted in Maryland or elsewhere of a misdemeanor which, under Maryland law, carries a maximum penalty of more than 2 years? IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT SENTENCE YOU ACTUALLY RECEIVED, EVEN IF YOU ONLY RECEIVED PROBATION."

Except for the niggling lil fact that a PBJ is NOT a conviction.

 

[shooter56]

I suspect that you will not receive any PBJ's for handgun violations, only PAJ's (probation after judgment), which means you are convicted and the conviction stands even after your probation period, you just get a lesser sentence than the minimum recommended.

 

[Armati]

Except for the niggling lil fact that a PBJ is NOT a conviction.

I can assure you, I had this exact conversation with my attorney. The PBJ blows my mind.

I couldn't remember how MD defined prohibited person on that state form.

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[shooter56]

It doesn't say PBJ, it says PROBATION. There are two kinds of probation, before judgment and after judgment. A PBJ is considered a conviction under federal law.

 

[Armati]

It doesn't say PBJ, it says PROBATION. There are two kinds of probation, before judgment and after judgment. A PBJ is considered a conviction under federal law.

No it is not.

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[protegeV]

No it is not.

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agreed. Just by nature or the wording I don't see how that's possible. Probation BEFORE judgement. A guilty verdict with a sentence of probation is different.

 

[Mark75H]

agreed. Just by nature or the wording I don't see how that's possible. Probation BEFORE judgement. A guilty verdict with a sentence of probation is different.

I think the kicker is PBJ usually comes after a guilty plea ... so you are screwed up if a question asks if you ever plead guilty.

 

[Art3]

Maybe I saw it in an earlier draft, but I thought there was part of FA2013 that said PBJ counts as a conviction for the prohibiting part.

 

[protegeV]

I think the kicker is PBJ usually comes after a guilty plea ... so you are screwed up if a question asks if you ever plead guilty.

IANAL, and I wouldn't even pretend to be one. I'd need a detailed explanation on this. On the one hand it is supposed to be BEFORE judgement. As in, neither guilty or not guilty. My only reference is traffic court and every time I've heard someone receive PBJ it's after a "guilty with an explanation" type plea.

 

[Armati]

I think the kicker is PBJ usually comes after a guilty plea ... so you are screwed up if a question asks if you ever plead guilty.

Nope. You can be found guilty by the court, but this ruling is "shelved" pending your probation. After probation you not convinced of any crime. Neat huh?

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[CharlieFoxtrot]

No, no, no. IAAL: A PBJ is not a conviction. From the minute you get the PBJ you can truthfully answer that you haven't been convicted of a crime. When the Judge enters the PBJ pursuant to Maryland Criminal Procedure 6-220 he/she strikes the guilty finding (the judgment) and places you on probation. Therefore no judgment (i.e. conviction) is entered Now if you violate your probation you can be hauled back into court and the judge can strike the PBJ and enter a conviction on your record and re-sentence you.

It is correct that a condition of probation can prohibit you from possessing any dangerous and deadly weapon while you are on probation but that can be waived. Not the same as being prohibited under Maryland Statute.

The one exception is that under FA2013 the statute was amended to state that a PBJ for a crime of violence or a "domestically related crime" counts as a conviction.

MD doesn't have anything that's called a Probation after Judgment (PAJ)

 

[protegeV]

Thank you^^

 

[tc617]

It's a misdemeanor but carries >2 years so a conviction does make one a prohibited person.

With one stipulation...

Most of this "carries a sentence >2 years thus making you a prohibited person" crap only applies within the confines of this sorry-ass state. A person who decides to move from Maryland to America; Virginia, Texas, Utah, etc will most likely find that they are no longer be a prohibited person... It's amazing how that works!

 

[runswscissors]

Funny. I looked into this a week or two ago as well.

It's a shame when you have to actually THINK about whether it's worth 3 yrs, loss of firearm ownership rights and $2,500.

 

[shooter56]

Well, I'm certainly no lawyer but this guy is a Maryland lawyer. This web page explains what a PBJ is and explains the difference between probation before judgment and probation after judgment. Last sentence on this page states: "Under federal law, probation before judgment is treated as a criminal conviction, even though it is not treated as a criminal conviction under state law." I was able to find many other sites that back that claim up.

http://professorwarnken.com/2010/08/17/what-is-a-probation-before-judgement-pbj/

It does appear that Maryland has such a thing as probation after judgment but I'm not clear on it's use.

http://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2010/criminal-procedure/title-6/subtitle-2/6-225

 

[Pinecone]

With one stipulation...

Most of this "carries a sentence >2 years thus making you a prohibited person" crap only applies within the confines of this sorry-ass state. A person who decides to move from Maryland to America; Virginia, Texas, Utah, etc will most likely find that they are no longer be a prohibited person... It's amazing how that works!

I suggest you closely read question 11c on the FEDERAL Form 4473.

Have you ever been convicted of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence, including probation?

https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

 

[Armati]

I suggest you closely read question 11c on the FEDERAL Form 4473.



https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download

However, ta da, PBJ is not a conviction. Judgement = Conviction. PBJ means no judgment.

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