Jewish leaders asking for CCW in Europe

[Rack&Roll]

There is no "Jewish lobby" in the US.... Nor are Jews in general particularly adept at either security or defense, at least no more so than any other group of people...

Anyone with familiarity of things like Krav Maga, or who saw locked-and-hardened El Al Israel airline cockpits starting in the 1970s might disagree.

Israelis have agents that talk to people waiting in line to get to the El Al airline counter to size up passengers. Their version of the TSA looks for bombers, not bombs.

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Anyone with familiarity of things like Krav Maga, or who saw locked-and-hardened El Al Israel airline cockpits starting in the 1970s might disagree.

Israelis have agents that talk to people waiting in line to get to the El Al airline counter to size up passengers. Their version of the TSA looks for bombers, not bombs.

With apologies to Rack nRoll. I hit reply to the wrong post. Fat but fast fingers. I'm actually on the same page with RnR. Thanks for your perspective. Intended for jkeiler...

I can stand corrected. I've been wrong before and will be again.

My limited experience includes growing up with a fair number of Jews, going to school with Jews, having Jewish friends my whole life including some very close ones even today. There was that Jewish Airborne Colonel I sat next to for a couple courses in War College (as a student), there were several Jewish PhDs among the faculty when I taught (who were exceptional and erudite colleagues), then there's the current neighbor who's seventy something---still a credentialed LEO. My impressions and knowledge come from these folks. Yeah, and the two former Mossad folks who were profs and the one who I bought my Beemer from... Yep, I acknowledge I'm probably wrong. Misinformed and or misinterpreted...a habitual problem for which I am filled with regret. I should stop posting my opinions...misinformed as they are. I'd chastise myself but I'm a recovering Catholic and not Jewish enough to dig the guilt.

I only wish I could associate with more folks of their knowledge, caliber and character.

 

[Schipperke]

I've always felt getting Jews on board with CCW is a key.

The Golden Ticket indeed

 

[jkeiler]

With apologies to Rack nRoll. I hit reply to the wrong post. Fat but fast fingers. I'm actually on the same page with RnR. Thanks for your perspective. Intended for jkeiler...

I can stand corrected. I've been wrong before and will be again.

My limited experience includes growing up with a fair number of Jews, going to school with Jews, having Jewish friends my whole life including some very close ones even today. There was that Jewish Airborne Colonel I sat next to for a couple courses in War College (as a student), there were several Jewish PhDs among the faculty when I taught (who were exceptional and erudite colleagues), then there's the current neighbor who's seventy something---still a credentialed LEO. My impressions and knowledge come from these folks. Yeah, and the two former Mossad folks who were profs and the one who I bought my Beemer from... Yep, I acknowledge I'm probably wrong. Misinformed and or misinterpreted...a habitual problem for which I am filled with regret. I should stop posting my opinions...misinformed as they are. I'd chastise myself but I'm a recovering Catholic and not Jewish enough to dig the guilt.

I only wish I could associate with more folks of their knowledge, caliber and character.

My intention was not to criticize, you are clearly a guy who is not an anti-Semite in any way. The thing is, phrases like "Jewish lobby" have been used over the years as the basis for all sorts of conspiracy theories about Jews controlling the world, beginning with the phony Protocols of the Elders of Zion (a forgery put out by the Czarist secret police in Russia) through Nazi propaganda, etc.

The "Jews control the world thing" has generally been a theme of the extreme right. Lately, the left has done the opposite, using opposition to Israel as a cover to hide their own anti-Semitism aided and abetted by a fair number of self-loathing leftist Jews. So the use of terms is important, even if you meant it in a positive way. This site is generally pro-Israel and pro-Jewish, but if an anti-Semite or an anti-Zionist could cite to it, saying that "Hey at this pro-Jewish site they are talking about the power of the Jewish lobby" that's not good. Same as if somebody on the site mistakenly said something that gun-rights antis could use against us.

You also seem to have disproportionately met a lot of tough Jews. They are about--my dad commanded a minesweeper in WWII, my uncle was an infantryman in the Huertegen Forest and many of my cousins have been officers and enlisted men in the IDF. But a lot of Jews in the US and Europe are not like that at all. So it is a mix, like any other group of people. But I appreciate the sentiment. Please don't take my comment the wrong way.

 

[Schipperke]

The "Jews control the world thing" has generally been a theme of the extreme right.

If not the world, what is your view of the US media?

 

[jkeiler]

If not the world, what is your view of the US media?

See?

 

[Alea Jacta Est]

Roger. Copy.

I left several out. They're indeed a tough lot and almost every one well informed.

I admire the Jews. They generally have to make their own breaks. As a group, my experience is they are keenly aware of threats, vulnerabilities and opportunities.

God love em. I'd happily stand with any of them I know in a jam. I'd feel lucky to have them covering my six.

The European issue of potentially allowing them to be armed is a great one.

The notion of Jewish support for dometic 2A is delicate as indicated. Pragmatists know of the threats, foreign and domestic. And the related need for self defense. Not lots of realists among our population. Many idealists not in touch with the cold hard edge of reality.

I'm glad my exposure has been the folks it's been. I'm lucky that way.

 

[rbird7282]

Any Jew who knows anything about their own history would be a strong supporter of the right to keep and bear arms, but sadly there a lot of ignorant Jews out there.



View attachment 141454



"Jews Forbidden to Possess Weapons

By Order of SS Reichsführer Himmler

Munich, November 10 [1938]

The SS Reichsführer and German Police Chief has issued the following Order:

Persons who, according to the Nürnberg law, are regarded as Jews, are forbidden to possess

any weapon.

Violaters will be condemned to a concentration camp and imprisoned for a period of up

to 20 years."



View attachment 141455



"Jews are prohibited from acquiring, possessing, and carrying firearms and ammunition,

as well as truncheons or stabbing weapons.

Those now having in their possession weapons and ammunition must at once surrender them

to the local police authority.

Firearms and ammunition found in a Jew's possession will be forfeited to the government

without compensation.

Whoever willfully or negligently violates the provisions...will be punished with

imprisonment and a fine.

Berlin, 11 November 1938

Minister of the Interior

Frick"



"Germans who wish to use guns should join the SS or the SA. Ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the state."

- Heinrich Himmler, Hitler's SS leader



"All Jews are to be disarmed. In the event of resistance, they are to be shot immediately."

- Joseph Goebbels, Hitler's propaganda minister



"The most foolish mistake we could ever make would be to permit the conquered races to have arms."

- Adolf Hitler

Some are ignorant of their own history but what gets me is that the vast majority of Jews that I've met are Liberals. Go figure. For the life of me I do not understand why.


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[JMintzer]

If not the world, what is your view of the US media?

If Jews controlled the US media, why was Israel thoroughly trashed in the media during last Summer's retaliation to Hamas bombings and tunneling?

 

[danb]

Some are ignorant of their own history but what gets me is that the vast majority of Jews that I've met are Liberals. Go figure. For the life of me I do not understand why.


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no: It boils down to I can hire bodyguards but I don't want those people to have guns.

If there was an actual terrorist attack on synagogues, people would protect themselves. People always assume gun control applies to the other guy.

 

[Jim12]

If Jews controlled the US media, why was Israel thoroughly trashed in the media during last Summer's retaliation to Hamas bombings and tunneling?

I read somewhere -- in the media -- that American Jews are losing their connection with Israel. Many younger Jews in liberal urban areas even think it's fashionable and acceptable to be anti-Israel.

Why else do you think Obama, the political animal and cult leader that he is among the young and inexperienced, has allowed himself to be so openly and confidently hostile toward Israel? He sees a turning tide and plays demographics.

 

[Docster]

Exactly what the hell do Jews know about security or threats?

Don't tell me, I already know. I just wanted to get your attention.

The Jewish lobby in the USofA is major league. Jews have been prosecuted and murdered pretty much forever. Israel is in a constant state of terror threats.

They do security like nobody else. They are the international pros knowledge wise and operationally.

We would do well to "cheat off them"...as would Europe.

Correct, they do SECURITY better than anyone else. Self defense however is something else--much more difficult with strict gun and other weapons laws.

 

[Brooklyn]

I read somewhere -- in the media -- that American Jews are losing their connection with Israel. Many younger Jews in liberal urban areas even think it's fashionable and acceptable to be anti-Israel.

Why else do you think Obama, the political animal and cult leader that he is among the young and inexperienced, has allowed himself to be so openly and confidently hostile toward Israel? He sees a turning tide and plays demographics.

Its allways been fashionable to be anti war. Its less fashionable to own the result.. liberal rich Jews are more spoiled today than ever before.. and these are they that get the attention.



However most Jews are not so well off. Many have been forced to abandon their homes so often that each generation often starts from scratch.

Md is full of the spoiled brats, the slums of NYC not so much.

Many have in fact disowned these Jews. They are prepared to be victims and I am prepared to let them.

To fight for those you can not is noble. To fight for those will not is follish.

May the lord take and keep them... I have no use for them.

Now we will start to seperate those who deserve help and those who do not.

You know where to find us..

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

I read somewhere -- in the media -- that American Jews are losing their connection with Israel. Many younger Jews in liberal urban areas even think it's fashionable and acceptable to be anti-Israel.

Why else do you think Obama, the political animal and cult leader that he is among the young and inexperienced, has allowed himself to be so openly and confidently hostile toward Israel? He sees a turning tide and plays demographics.

Sad but true. Never met any pro-Israel Jews in all my time in public school and college. Many don't care about it as a homeland...words can't express how that makes me feel.

 

[Bagpiperer]

Some are ignorant of their own history but what gets me is that the vast majority of Jews that I've met are Liberals. Go figure. For the life of me I do not understand why.

Being Semitically-challenged, I can't speak authoritatively, but I think this is because progressivism is the dominant ideology in the West today. There's a lot of pressure on people to accept the left's framing of policy issues ranging from welfare to gay marriage. For people who've grown up in a relatively sheltered, middle-class neighborhood, leftism's self-representation as the prinicipled, intellectual way to view the world is incredibly seductive. Lacking the life experience to understand how it's not really compassionate to render a man and his family dependent on the dole, or why it's necessary for people to be armed, or for nations to go to war, conservatism seems alien and wrong to them.

 

[Schipperke]

If Jews controlled the US media, why was Israel thoroughly trashed in the media during last Summer's retaliation to Hamas bombings and tunneling?

Lately, the left has done the opposite, using opposition to Israel as a cover to hide their own anti-Semitism aided and abetted by a fair number of self-loathing leftist Jews.

Previously answered

 

[jkeiler]

Previously answered

Don't twist my words to support your bigotry. The fact that some Jews support the leftist trashing of Israel hardly means Jews control the media.

 

[Schipperke]

Don't twist my words to support your bigotry. The fact that some Jews support the leftist trashing of Israel hardly means Jews control the media.

I agree with your bit of analysis there. How is a direct quote of your comment which was a reasonable answer to another's question "twisting" ? Bigotry is the antithesis of agreement, grow up. If you don't want to believe Jews control the media that's a different issue. Why not ask Ben Stein ? Are you leaping to the conclusion if it concerns me? Of course you are.. Stop speculating.

 

[kenpo333]

Who can blame them. It's not paranoia for them.

 

[JMintzer]

Sad but true. Never met any pro-Israel Jews in all my time in public school and college. Many don't care about it as a homeland...words can't express how that makes me feel.

Don't know where you went to school. My girls were all involved in either the Jewish Student Union or Hillel house in college. My youngest is in a Jewish sorority at UGA, and visits the local Chabad for Shabbat dinners. She also teaches at the local Hebrew Sunday school (her major is Early Childhood Education). My middle daughter did "Birthright" and my youngest is registered to go, possibly this Summer. My youngest did "March of the Living" 3 years ago, which is a 2 week trip, 1 week in Poland (to see the ghettos and concentration camp in honor of Holocaust Remembrance Day), followed by a week in Israel to celebrate Israeli Independence Day.

All of them, and their friends, are very "pro-Israel", even though they are very "socially" liberal...