Is my Fiancee alowed to buy me a gun if im not a criminal?

[Brooklyn]

No... Do not do it. The law is stupid and Scotus has upheld it. Done.

Do not do it.

You must do the 4473. payment is another matter..

 

[gungate]

A bolt .22 rifle? Since this is a non-regulated rifle, you should be able to do a F2F transfer with no paperwork anyway right? So she gives it to you and you take it.

 

[MDFF2008]

One of the key issues in the SCOTUS case was money.

If your girlfriend purchases a firearm, with her own money, takes possession of it, and then transfers it to you, you should be ok.

If, however, you give her the money to buy it, that is what the SCOTUS case was about.

 

[platekiller]

I never understand the " Buy a gun as a gift" thing.
"Here honey. Here's the cash for that gun you wanted. Happy Birthday." Seems to solve everything.

my parents bought me a Remington 870 for Christmas one year. my dad thought I should have my own shotgun, I never asked for it but was very happy to get it.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[Haides]

BGOS. BGOS everywhere...

 

[awptickes]

the person paying has to be the person filling out the 4473.

 

[outrider58]

She can pay for it but, you do all paperwork as if you were paying for you own purchase.

 

[sgt23preston]

The way it works is simple...

You both go to the store, you do the paper work & she pays the bill...

 

[Haides]

Or, if she knows which one she's getting, she goes to the store, buys it, fills out the paperwork, then gives it to you- just like any other thing you buy for someone as a gift. I don't know why people get so freaked out over this.

 

[Crab Bait]

Cleared that right up...

 

[Pinecone]

Personally I would never want a gun as a gift, I know it is legal but I like the clear line of ownership without any confusion.

Line of ownership is clear. From manufacturer to dealer (possibly through a distributor) to the person who bought it to YOU.

If you are paranoid, just document the gift.

 

[Pinecone]

She can pay for it but, you do all paperwork as if you were paying for you own purchase.

But do that in the gun store, and you will likely be turned away due to possibly being a straw purchase.

 

[Pinecone]

No... Do not do it. The law is stupid and Scotus has upheld it. Done.

Do not do it.

You must do the 4473. payment is another matter..

Why is the law stupid? The law also deals with the person wanting to conceal their purchase of a firearm.

A gives B money to buy a gun, so that there is no record of A buying a gun, even though they cuold legally do so.

A straw purchase occurs when the actual buyer of a firearm is unable to pass the required federal background check, or does not want his or her full name associated with the purchase, and has someone else who can pass
the required background check purchase the firearm for him or her.

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

The problem with the SCOTUS case was that it was NOT a gift. It was a resale so the uncle could get the discount offered to the original purchaser. According to the 4473 language, if no money changes hands between the purchaser and the recipient it is a gift.

Here's the entire instruction from 4473

ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANS- FEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer “NO” to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer “YES” to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), (n), or (x).

 

[awptickes]

Ok, so I checked the ATF documentation I received with my C&R FFL. Basically, as long as I, the FFL, don't think it's a straw purchase, it's good to go.

Straw purchase: Buyer is unable or unwilling to purchase the firearm himself.


Source:
http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf
Page 165 (166 in the PDF numbering)


I'm not sure where I got the 4473 nonsense from... Sorry guys.


EDIT: While digging this up, looks like ShallNotInfringe beat me to it.

 

[smokey]

the person paying has to be the person filling out the 4473.

This is incorrect. I sold guns behind a counter for 7 years. There is absolutely nothing legally wrong with one person paying for it and another person doing the 4473 IF THE PERSON DOING THE 4473 IS THE PERSON WHO IS ENDING UP WITH THE GUN. There's also nothing wrong with me taking a long gun that I own and doing a FTF transfer to somone as long as I don't have reason to believe they're a prohibited person.

So, legally...the OP is completely fine. Of course legally the FFL can choose to deny a sale at their discretion if they think it's an illegal transfer, like a straw purchase. Some salespeople are completely fine moving forward with a sale where one person pays and another does paperwork if they feel the person doing the paperwork is ultimately getting the gun...others won't ever do it because their undies are on too tight. Again, it's at the discretion of the salesperson and they're legally supported in denying any sale that doesn't pass their individual sniff test.

For me, it had to be pretty obvious. I literally had a guy hold three or four rifles, tell me to get a box for one that was a display model(the last one left), gave a wad of cash to his buddy right in front of me and said, "He'll be filling out the paperwork for me"....it was so blatant I had to check to make sure he didn't mean that his buddy would fill out the forms with the purchaser's name and everything because of some disability or something that kept him from being able to write. Nope, he picked out a rifle, gave a wad of cash to his friend, and told me his friend would be putting the gun in his name. Soooo....no. Of course the tatted up braniac threw a tantrum that I refused the sale...but commahhhn, rules is rules.

So, it is completely legal and if you're very upfront with the salesguy and don't give them reason to think it's an illegal straw purchase they should be fine with it...although some are douches.

 

[Anotherpyr]

Not so, says the Supreme Court.

Abramski was legally able to purchase the Glock. Alvarez was legally able to own and possess a handgun. Alvarez sent a check to Abramski to purchase the Glock. Abramski checked "YES" on Question 11a. Abramski was convicted and the decision was upheld.

http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/abramski-v-united-states/

That just cleared something up for me about the case I had missed. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/06/1261522/-What-Straw-Purchase-a-Gun-Abramski-v-US# gives the details. I never realized he had received payment for the pistol prior to the purchase. And the backstory explains how this became a case in the first place.

 

[eruby]

BGOS. BGOS everywhere...

It's only BGOS until you end up in the calaboose.

 

[Haides]

It's only BGOS until you end up in the calaboose.

Well as long as he doesn't do anything stupid, like write her a check with "money for gun" in the memo, then nobody will end up in the calaboose for doing something 100% legal.

 

[eruby]

Well as long as he doesn't do anything stupid, like write her a check with "money for gun" in the memo, then nobody will end up in the calaboose for doing something 100% legal.