Is Depression a CCW Disqualifier?

[Mossberg Kid]

Hey, everyone.

A couple years ago, my GF was on medication for depression for about six months or so.

Looking over the MSP application for a conceal carry permit, would that disqualify her?

 

[teratos]

It shouldn't be unless she has been confined to a psych facility for more than 30 days. It looks like MD is looking at it, though. See HB 618.

 

[Mossberg Kid]

ATF Form 4473 asks:

"Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective ... OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

Whereas the MSP CCW permit applications asks:

"Have you ever attended, or been treated, or observed by any medical doctor, psychiatrist, hospital, or institution, including voluntary commitment, for any mental or psychiatric condition?"

I'm thinking that getting a prescription from a psychiatrist for depression would be considered being treated for a mental condition. Am I mistaken?

I guess she could always ask her doctor for a copy of her medical records, just to see what is there.

 

[teratos]

ATF Form 4473 asks:

"Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective ... OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

Whereas the MSP CCW permit applications asks:

"Have you ever attended, or been treated, or observed by any medical doctor, psychiatrist, hospital, or institution, including voluntary commitment, for any mental or psychiatric condition?"

I'm thinking that getting a prescription from a psychiatrist for depression would be considered being treated for a mental condition. Am I mistaken?

I guess she could always ask her doctor for a copy of her medical records, just to see what is there.

I agree, it would count. Could they disqualify you for taking a medication for mild anxiety/depression? I cannot imagine. I treat a lot of police officers for anxiety and depression.....just saying.

 

[Mossberg Kid]

I guess she answers "yes" on the MSP application, and tries to explain things to the best of her ability on one of the continuation sheets; maybe include a letter from the doc signing off on her mental health?

 

[teratos]

I guess she answers "yes" on the MSP application, and tries to explain things to the best of her ability on one of the continuation sheets; maybe include a letter from the doc signing off on her mental health?

Don't give them anything they don't ask for.....

 

[Mossberg Kid]

Okay; thanks. Would you agree she answer "yes" on the MSP application, and then tries to explain things to the best of her ability on one of the continuation sheets?

Or should she answer no, like she does on the ATF Form 4473, which asks if you've ever been adjudicated mentally defective or committed to a mental institution?

 

[teratos]

Okay; thanks. Would you agree she answer "yes" on the MSP application, and then tries to explain things to the best of her ability on one of the continuation sheets?

Or should she answer no, like she does on the ATF Form 4473, which asks if you've ever been adjudicated mentally defective or committed to a mental institution?

Maryland asks if you have ever been treated for psychiatric illness. She has to answer yes. Even though though the MSP would likely never get the records for your primary doctor, if you lie that is bad stuff....

 

[ivanthescourge]

I think adjudicated mentally defective means you've been declared by a court of law that you're looney-bin-able.
I thought medical records were private. I don't know if they can legally force you to answer that. But they don't have to give you a CCW permit, either.

Oh, and I'm not a lawyer...

 

[DOsniper]

No. I have been treated for depression in the past (still am I should say) and as long as you were never committed for 30+ consecutive days or ever legally deemed a hazard to yourself or others. I know with people floating around like the psychos in AZ and CO mental health gets a bad wrap, however, depression/depression meds are one of the top 3 disorders diagnosed and treated in the outpatient setting. I told them the meds I took and said, you go to med school for 4 yrs, tell me you wouldn't be depressed by the end, he laughed and said he could only imagine.

So yes, she should answer YES, and be honest about the meds she is on in the interview. Honesty is not the issue, lying is.

 

[teratos]

I think adjudicated mentally defective means you've been declared by a court of law that you're looney-bin-able.
I thought medical records were private. I don't know if they can legally force you to answer that. But they don't have to give you a CCW permit, either.

Oh, and I'm not a lawyer...

They can not FORCE you to answer. If you answer in the negative, and they find out you are likely in for problems. Again, the MSP if VERY unlikely to ask your doc for medical records. We will see what happens with this. As MossbergKid pointed out:

Whereas the MSP CCW permit applications asks:

"Have you ever attended, or been treated, or observed by any medical doctor, psychiatrist, hospital, or institution, including voluntary commitment, for any mental or psychiatric condition?"

This goes beyond what is typically asked for mental illness. I am sure there are plenty of people walking around with permits who take something for depression and anxiety. I may even know a few.

 

[Zombie_013]

Hey, everyone.

A couple years ago, my GF was on medication for depression for about six months or so.

Looking over the MSP application for a conceal carry permit, would that disqualify her?

I am not trying to be rude, but I think you are f'd if you answer honestly. I do not agree that is right.

 

[Mossberg Kid]

No. I have been treated for depression in the past (still am I should say) and as long as you were never committed for 30+ consecutive days or ever legally deemed a hazard to yourself or others. I know with people floating around like the psychos in AZ and CO mental health gets a bad wrap, however, depression/depression meds are one of the top 3 disorders diagnosed and treated in the outpatient setting. I told them the meds I took and said, you go to med school for 4 yrs, tell me you wouldn't be depressed by the end, he laughed and said he could only imagine.

So yes, she should answer YES, and be honest about the meds she is on in the interview. Honesty is not the issue, lying is.

Okay; neither of us is interested in lying or otherwise breaking the law; just trying to be clear in terms of legal definitions and compliance expectations.

 

[DOsniper]

They can not FORCE you to answer. If you answer in the negative, and they find out you are likely in for problems. Again, the MSP if VERY unlikely to ask your doc for medical records. We will see what happens with this. As MossbergKid pointed out:
This goes beyond what is typically asked for mental illness. I am sure there are plenty of people walking around with permits who take something for depression and anxiety. I may even know a few.

I spoke to the higher ups about this question in the MDSP and got Delegate Smigiel's office involved because I felt like my privacy was being violated by asking about meds and other very personal health data (which you are damned if you do/don't answer), when I already answered NO to the "big one" about if I have been committed. I checked my app and realized I put no to the second psych question, which I think was out of haste in filling out the application and already answering No to the previous psych-related question. You fill out enough gun paperwork you get use to only seeing one question related to mental health, not 2.

However, when asked in my interview, I answered all their questions honestly and they never even said anything about what I put on my app. A huge over site on my part, however, I am hoping the interview, which is the info that is submitted to Pikesville for final review, will show I was obviously not intentionally lying. We'll see. You are innocent until proven guilty and labeling EVERYONE who has even seen a psych, even just to talk, as a serial killer will not fly in our world of political correctness. No too worried about it but I will keep you posted, I am hoping I am one of those 365.

 

[DOsniper]

I am not trying to be rude, but I think you are f'd if you answer honestly. I do not agree that is right.

I hear what you are saying, but it's thinking like this that violates someone's rights even more.

I know/treat plenty of of people on depression/anxiety meds and they are some of the nicest people I know. Depression is a disease, it has an official ICD9 code just like diabetes or coronary artery disease. To ban someone from a CCW out of a fear for their disease, is a violation of their rights.

Yes, people like Holmes and Laughner do not do wonders for the public image of those who have any one of a boatload of conditions classified as a psych/mental health disorder (ADD/ADHD even counts), but keep in mind those are 2 people of the 26.6% of adults in this country treated for psychological disorders of any kind. You have to put it in perspective to appreciate truly how many people are seen for these sorts of things.

So unless those several million patients are all violent criminals, I'm no too worried about defending myself on topic should the need arise.

 

[foxtrapper]

Ok, I am always totally blunt honest about things and cannot stand lying. It is part of aspergers, and I found this is a common trait after I subscribed to a FB autism/aspergers blog. Also I probably say "weird" things and say the "wrong" things- again all part of aspergers. So I'll go ahead and check yes for that question- MSP calls and asks me to give more info- what should I say/how should I word it? I have had depression treatment for almost 19 years, and developed an anxiety disorder that is linked to menopausal changes and no doubt the aspergers. The depression seems to stem from the aspergers too, but there is definatly a chemical component as well ( I believe aspergers to be at least in part genetic). No hospital stays ( that would be SCARY and just make me worst), no involuntary evals, and I've had no run-ins with the law unless you count warning tickets from the DNR and 1 traffic ticket.

 

[DOsniper]

Ok, I am always totally blunt honest about things and cannot stand lying. It is part of aspergers, and I found this is a common trait after I subscribed to a FB autism/aspergers blog. Also I probably say "weird" things and say the "wrong" things- again all part of aspergers. So I'll go ahead and check yes for that question- MSP calls and asks me to give more info- what should I say/how should I word it? I have had depression treatment for almost 19 years, and developed an anxiety disorder that is linked to menopausal changes and no doubt the aspergers. The depression seems to stem from the aspergers too, but there is definatly a chemical component as well ( I believe aspergers to be at least in part genetic). No hospital stays ( that would be SCARY and just make me worst), no involuntary evals, and I've had no run-ins with the law unless you count warning tickets from the DNR and 1 traffic ticket.

Asperger's itself is a developmental/chromosomal disorder, not psych. Sure it has personality manifestations that may look psych related to the untrained eye, however, if Apergers is the only diagnosis, it is not in anyway classifiable as a psych disorder. Does it have psych manifestations, sure. But to put it bluntly, you have chromosomal abnormalities by definition.

Under the new DSM-V, it may be listed and thus classifying as a mental health disorder, but as I learned it, it is a development/chromosomal abnormality. This is a situation where being PC is in your favor.

 

[teratos]

Asperger's itself is a developmental/chromosomal disorder, not psych. Sure it has personality manifestations that may look psych related to the untrained eye, however, if Apergers is the only diagnosis, it is not in anyway classifiable as a psych disorder. Does it have psych manifestations, sure. But to put it bluntly, you have chromosomal abnormalities by definition.

Under the new DSM-V, it may be listed and thus classifying as a mental health disorder, but as I learned it, it is a development/chromosomal abnormality. This is a situation where being PC is in your favor.

Guarantee .gov will STILL see it as a psych disorder.....

 

[6pack]

I've had anxiety issues just about my whole life and have been on medication two separate times (a couple years each time). I have just gone off it (with doctors supervision) as of last month, because the FAA feels I'm a safer pilot not on it... but that's a whole different topic. I checked yes on my app about taking it and talked about it with my grumpy investigator. I haven't been denied yet, so I'm guessing all is okay.

 

[Broadside]

I'm not a lawyer or a mental health professional, but I think the best course of action is to speak to your mental health professional and explain what you are doing. Then ask for their assistance in writing an explanation for your application.

I doubt any mental Heath professional would ever pronounce anyone as cured. However, I think you would want to include certain "buzz words". Something along the lines of "released from treatment is probably what you are looking for.

My guess is that the investigator is going to ask to speak with your mental health professional and I think you would want to do that first so their are no surprises.

At the end of the day, we won't know for sure until someone is denied on mental health grounds.