Is an arrest something to worry about?

[Darkemp]

And next time find someplace better to hang out other than outside convenience stores in high crime areas, act like a hood in polite society and you'll be treated like one guaranteed. Carry something more practical like a good folding knife which is perfectly legal, unless you are just a poser.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

A standard condition of all Maryland supervised probation (and probation is probation whether it stems from a PBJ or a conviction) is you must get your agents permission before possessing a firearm or other weapon. Needless to say that permission is harder to get then a Maryland CCW.

 

[Pirate]

Its great to get opinions from this web site but you should speak to an attorney and MSP who can both look at your actual record and outcome. I have seen MSP charging people with perjury that sign the gun app and say they haven't done anything that is listed on that form. Just make sure before you complete the 77r.

 

[markc]

-

 

[Straightshooter]

I'm not a lawyer, but I've had lawyers that I've personally known, as well as others on this board who know more about legal matters than I, verify that the law is that you must wait 3 years from the completion of the PBJ before expungement.

OP, you should be good-to-go. PBJ is not a conviction. There are no 'county' laws that differ from place to place, the laws on purchase and transfer are consistent throughout MD.

I'm not a lawyer either but I do speak from personal experience. Life's lessons trump a law degree any day. The day after PBJ was satisfied, I filed and my record was wiped clean. Note: my period of PBJ was 3 years. The law says 3 years from the issue of PBJ, not after completion. Regardless, get that record expunged as soon as allowed.

http://www.courts.state.md.us/courtforms/joint/ccdccr072br.pdf

 

[markc]

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[marko12]

markc, funny how things work with the Judicial System. I was arrested years and years ago, twice on different charges, but was never prosecuted or even went to court and no PBJ. Went to buy a rifle last year and was denied, WTF ? Had to satisfy the State that I was not guilty of anything. Applied for a C&R late last year was denied by the FBI for the other charge, WTF again ? Both De and MD and the BATFE said I was OK but the FBI demanded an account of the final Court disposition. Not being prosecuted or getting a PBJ is no guarantee of approval. If you are denied take care of it right away, don't wait.
mark

 

[Bohlieve410]

Is PBJ equivalent to nolle prosequai?

Sucks to hear bro, hope everything works out!!! Get yourself a nice speedassist Zero Tolerance folder

 

[Markp]

I actually paid for an expensive lawyer who didn't show up to court and sent an associate. He never met with me outside of the initial consultation. Needless to say, I have a very poor opinion of lawyers now. From the start, everyone (me included) presumed I was guilty. The public prosecutor, judge, police officer, my lawyer all didn't have knowledge of MD laws. If the people whose jobs it is to know the law don't know it, who can?



I was on unsupervised probation and am no longer on probation.



Like I said above, I have a poor opinion of lawyers and police officers in MD. Lawyers are generally unhelpful and ignorant of many laws. I guess this applies more to the larger multi-state law firms. I have talked to some small town lawyers who were slightly more helpful.

As for our officers: 1) The officer who arrested me didn't have full knowledge of MD law. Granted, he was a Baltimore City desk officer (Not MSP) working off-duty night shifts on the streets. Still.
2) I also called the MSP Barracks asking if the butterfly knife was legal to carry. The officer on the phone initially told me, it was illegal. When I pushed him to cite the exact law, he put me on hold, came back and said it was actually legal to carry. I don't think I should have to ask twice to get the right answer. I have more faith in the forums and in our firearm enthusiasts to know the actual laws and previous cases than I have in our officers. Only because of my first-hand experience.

Either way, I'm think I'm going to call a couple of shops today and see what they have to say. Definitely don't intend to perjure myself on the 77r. I've learned the hard way that it is far better to err on the side of caution when dealing with MD.

Thanks, all.

Great system ain't it... It all about the money, not about justice.

Mark

 

[Ethan83]

Is PBJ equivalent to nolle prosequai?

In the grand scheme of things, no, not even close. A PBJ entails a finding of guilt, but there is no conviction. A nolle pros is the next best thing to a completely dropped charge (I guess it's basically the prosecutor dropping the charge instead of the police), and thus there is no finding whatsoever, much less one of guilt. However, all the MD and Fed gun laws I'm aware of only pertain to convictions, and thus a PBJ is "as good as" a nolle pros in this sense.

IANAL

 

[marko12]

I enjoyed a Noelle Pros on both of my arrests, but that did not stop the

denial to purchase a firearm. Justice and Liberty are spelled different for a

reason.

 

[Ethan83]

I enjoyed a Noelle Pros on both of my arrests, but that did not stop the

denial to purchase a firearm. Justice and Liberty are spelled different for a

reason.

On what grounds were you denied? By the MDSP or via a NICS check? There is absolutely no basis whatsoever in any law I've ever heard of for denying a firearm purchase based on a nolle pros.

 

[Southern_Boy]

NOTE: IANAL. For some things I don't NEED to be. I cannot give you advice - for that you need a lawyer. Still, what follows is FACT;

PBJ == Probation BEFORE Judgement

There was no Judgement -- ergo there was no conviction.

Essentially, Hizzonner said "keep your nose clean for 90 days, and it never happened. Screw up again inside 90 days and we'll try you for *BOTH* charges!"

The reason you COULD get denied on a NICS is that The Court never did whatever paperwork was necessary to show disposition (ie: dismissal) of the case. The FBI system would still show an "unresolved charge."

In 1984 I got popped in PG County with 20.9 grams of some very good weed. Felony-possession at the time was 21g, -- good thing the chemist took his sample for testing BEFORE weighing, and they didn't find the rolling-machine joints in my pack of Marlboros...

The search was illegal as hell - but the arrest cost me my job. No $ for an Atty, couldn't get a PD, went to court alone.

Cops didn't show - should have been dismissed, but with nobody to say the magic words, it was continued.

The second time I came back from Ohio -- again no cops, again continued.

The THIRD time I came back from TEXAS. No cops, another continuance.

I didn't show for the 4th "appearance." Stupid, I know -- but I was young... In '88 I was really trying to clean up my act. I called MSP and tried to find out what I needed to do to clear this up. The female-officer couldn't find any records of a warrant or anything else on me -- she told me I was clear.

I feared this might pop up some day - knowing my luck - so I asked her for a letter stating I'd checked, and all was clear at this time. She sent it.

In '91, I was banging this **CRAZY** chick, broke it off, and she DEMOLISHED my (Wicomico-County) house -- she did some pretty sick crap, in addition to destroying most of my belongings. I called the police, who promptly arrived and arrested *ME* -- on a (then) 7-year-old "failure to appear" warrant from PG.

When it finally got to court, Hizzonner dismissed all charges including the FTA.

Fast-forward to ~07 -- I apply for a Florida non-resident CCW permit, and am held-up due to this old FTA charge. There's no record of dispensation, no record of the original charge -- nothing but the FTA.

The case-number the FBI has doesn't match anything PG or Wicomico has. Both basically said they'd deleted their records from that far back on Dismissed/NP cases.

FBI won't remove it without something from PG saying it was clear, PG won't issue such a thing since they have no records.

Catch-22.

FL finally accepted a "This person has no convictions and no wants-or-warrants" letter from a MSP Lt. who happened to be a friend-of-a-friend, and I got my permit. I still haven't figured out how to clear up the FBI system so it doesn't happen again...

Bottom line: don't wait. Get it expunged ASAP, and in the meantime get records of the PBJ and that it was successfully completed so the case was dismissed. KEEP THOSE RECORDS - you could need them 20 years later as I did/do!!

HTH...

 

[matt_b89]

the more you deal with court the more you'll find that if there's no media attached to the case more than likely you'll be found guilty whether its legal or not. lower courts don't have time to deal with time consuming trials and what not. that's why they push for deals so badly...it seems to them that they're doing you a favor and if you don't know the laws it seems like a good deal to you. our courts are broken..period

 

[marko12]

On what grounds were you denied? By the MDSP or via a NICS check? There is absolutely no basis whatsoever in any law I've ever heard of for denying a firearm purchase based on a nolle pros.

Ethan, I wasn't given any reasons for the denial except they wanted the final Court disposition. My reasoning was that if they could find the arrest records they could surely find the final Court disposition. Doh ! So, I shut up, swallowed my pride and set out to irritate everyone in the Court system until they gave me what was required. During this trek I encountered many professional people both in the State Police and the Court system who helped me immensely. It proved to me that everyone wasn't out to get me....just some.
I can now legally buy any weapon without reprise and I have also earned my
C&R which, after the group buy, will surely bankrupt me.

Mark

 

[Winged Pig]

First off, as some others have said, a PBJ is not a conviction. It cannot be used against you for the purposes of obtaining a firearm, or for anything else short of a judge considering it on a subsequent case.

On the other hand, if your PBJ happened prior to 1993 then there are most likely no computer records of your disposition. However, the arrest information will probably still show up. Don't ask me why it is like that, I'm just the messenger...

If there is an arrest record prior to the computer revolution, then it will be up to the arrestee to provide proper documentation showing a favorable disposition of said case prior to getting what you want. In this case if you no longer have the paperwork from your trial date then you will have to make a trip to the Maryland archives in Annapolis and have a hand search done to try and obtain your records. And yes, you will have to pay for it. In this situation the onus of proof is on you.

YMMV, but that is how the system is set up.