Internet-only Gun Stores vs. Local Gun Shops

[MattTheGunslinger]

I agree with both sides of this. I have my local shops that I will always support. When I'm buying, depending in the item, a few dollars difference does not matter to me. But if I can save $100+ in costs and taxes, that's what I'll be doing. No hard feelings towards the local shops as long as they understand. My responsibility is supporting me and my family, not them and theirs.

 

[BlackBart]

Like a new or used car........... if I can't touch, smell or taste it I probably won't buy it, guns are no different. Should one buy something online and it breaks.... send it back. If I were a dealer and you jerked me off Id refuse to fix it or give you "special pricing".

Are some dealers grossly over priced.... sure, avoid them. Some IP's are and so are the crooks trying to sell bricks here for 75 bucks or more.

 

[Alphabrew]

Why don't dealers set their prices such that they're indifferent between transferring a firearm from the online guys and selling the gun directly from inventory? I assume in most cases this would mean an increase in transfer fees. I know your transfer prices are very low, which seems like you're hurting yourself.

Also, one thing to consider with doing transfers, is that the customer has already paid for the gun. You're not out of pocket any inventory costs. That has to be a nice benefit to doing transfers.

 

[S&W19]

I don't envision small gun shops surviving and I'm okay with it.

Wow! Well, I'm not okay with that. Who's going to do your transfers for you then? Walmart?

 

[Mooseman]

Since I am an impulse buyer LGS works for me. However, I have very few LGSs in my area. I have a pretty good relationship with one of them. If I am searching for something that he can't easily get, he has no problem transferring it for me at a reasonable price.

 

[traveller]

I tried. Was given MSRP+ pricing. Went to Buds and had it shipped (free shipping) to a FFL. The only downside was that I had to order sight unseen, returning it would have had to be prior to the FFL transfer.

Yes, maybe there would have been a special beg&haggle price available with a secret handshake somewhere within a 2hr drive, but why ?

Price your product competitive to the online vendors and I'll come to yoir store and buy something else on the way out the door after completing my initial purchase.

 

[lee2]

i'm a deal shopper. to me a used gun is the best value.
unless its a new gun that i'm really interested in, it has to be a good price.
MSRP..forget it!
there are a few shops i frequent, i will usallly drop in and look around. if the price is right, hell yes!
one of the reasons i do gun shows it to check out the variety of whats available. there are some dealers who dont have the best demeanor but their prices keep me coming back to take a look. dont try to pay the rent on a couple of gun sales. to paraphrase some one we all know "stack em deep and sell em cheap."

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

This is why shops charge what they do, they know that no matter the price people will haggle so they mark them higher. When you give rock bottom prices people still try to haggle and then act insulted when you can't lower the price more. If you price it too high they claim you are ripping people off.

I hate haggling and hagglers, especially people who haggle just because they enjoy it. When I shop I buy what I can afford and the price is the price. The only time I haggle is when buying a car and I make it simple. I say, I can afford 20k for your brand of vehicle, can you put me in one at that price? If they say yes I pull out a certified check from my credit union. Done deal. If they can't make the deal I don't get offended after all they know their overhead, In don't.

I hate haggling, but GLOCKs and M&Ps for MSRP? Yeah right. That said, I've sourced all my new guns at IP storefronts except when it was something they don't carry. Prices don't need to be rock bottom, but most people don't want to haggle - they SEE high prices and go elsewhere I imagine. I come back to our IPs consistently because I've been treated fair and they can drop a few bucks off while still making me happy and getting their bread from me.

I see both sides, I really do. That's why I don't resort to internet sales houses unless I have to. Eventually we'll put our IPs out of business if we all just buy from Buds or the like.

 

[Dr.Duct_Mossburg]

I actually really like this thread... Let me give some background before I give me $.02.

Im going to use the AR platform to make this an understandable and relevant platform.

I have a background in retail. Been doing it since I graduated high school. Moved from the front lines to upper level management (district manager). I work in an industry that has absolutely canobilized. I not only have to compete with other companies doing the same things as me (imagine selling colt product and you have to compete with armalite, noveske, DPMS, no name, etc). Ok, No problem I can deal with that. Address values, bang for buck, why my product is a superior product as well and get the product moved and make everyone happy. Ok. Introduce walmarts, Amazon, etc. Shit... Now i have to compete with them. If I can get to their level I have to offer some sort of expertise and knowledge to prove my worth to the consumer and make them understand why I have to price match or get as close to it as reasonably possible. If I cant match it or get close enough to make the customer happy I have to swallow the pill and move on... Still offering the best service to the customer in hopes that they will come back next time and give me another change or that maybe when they need something serviced they will help me out or when they need that accessory or add on they give me a chance to help them. My main goal is to try and make sure anyone that walks through my door walks out more knowledgeable and happier than they came in.

My business is 1,000,000x more competitive than the gun industry... yes I am biased but it is probably the most competitive sales/retail industry there is from a business stand point.

Now... Here is why i dont buy from gun stores and choose big box or online... Please dont take this wrong and please respectfully address my points.

The gun stores I have visited and MY PERSONAL experience... again.. this is not all its just my experience.

- Extremely opinionated
- Extremely arogant
- have a "well **** you if you buy elsewhere" attitude.
- Cant come anywhere close to online pricing or big box
- The second you mention online prices than they get all pissy

Here's the thing... I have NO PROBLEM paying for your expertise and experience. i also am an impulsive buyer. I will see something I like and want to take it home with me right then and there... However, Im not going to pay an arm and a leg to do that. My M&P 9 was purchased from a dealer on here at the time for $479. No maryland dealer would get within $150 of it. I found them online for $400. I went with the $479 because I liked the guy and I thought he was worth the $80. The marlyand dealers? I didnt even want to support them at all. They were complete jack ass's when i went in to the stores. Rude, didnt know how to talk to customers and had a know it all attitude. All they did was tell me how Glock and Sig were better (this was 2 different places)... Well... I owned Glocks and I wanted the M&P for two reasons... I wanted the adjustable back straps for my wife, I loved how the slide went forward on the M&P when I slapped a mag in and it just felt good in my hand at the range. Not one person asked me why I wanted the gun.

My Ar's, Remington 700 tactical, Mossberg 930spx... No one could get within $200 of. I want to support local and I want to support the guy with dedication, patience and passion... but it's not worth $200 to me.

When it comes to the AR10... No one can even get in the ball park... Now even close...

I would LOVE to find someone I could go in the store with and have a relationship. That I can stop in and say hey and shoot the shit but I have yet to find that dealer that offers that (im sure there are several out there). At the same token... When you go buy a car you arent going to pay your local dealer $5,000 more on a truck when the one in Virgina has it for $5,000 less.

Here is my thing... Say hey... This is my cost, I need to get at least this to make it worth selling for me. It will be my break even mark and im not making much of anything but your business is worth it to me to get the product here. Now I am likely to buy my additional mags from you, my scope from you, my mounts from you... maybe some ammo. I'm sorry but the stores I have been to have people behind the counter that appear to HATE their life and thats why I dont deal local.

I also have a good buddy of mine that got so fed up with the local dealers that he went and got his FFL. All of his friends get their products shipped from online to him and he transfers them for cost... So I dont really need a local gun store at all. Anything I can learn in the store I can find online faster than its going to take me to drive to the store. Again, I would rather have that relationship because I love guns... Im just not going to put up with a D Bag attitude and pay outrageously more money.

Sorry the good guys out there have to deal with the overall shit image that is given to guys like me by other people in the industry.

I'll leave you with a little thing that has stuck with me since I was 21...

When I turned 21 I went in to my local gun store (the armory in Annapolis). I dealt with the owner (hal I think it is). I was talking to him about AR's because I had wanted one for a long time and now I was finally old enough to buy it. I'm a tinker kind of person so the idea of building one had my attention. I asked him about it building them, etc. and he said to me "you can build one but it probably won't fire".

What he doesnt know is that I had almost $2000 in my pocket that day and was super excited to buy an AR. I didnt plan on building my first one but it did have my interest. I walked out of his store never to return. I did end up building my first one and have loved it since.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Interesting thread. Lots of gun shop and customer service/perception related threads this year. Lots of dealers wanting to find and communicate a differentiator for their shop are concerned about their livelihood. Perhaps even more largely discouraged gun buyers. "Sometimes I Hate Gun Shops" comes to mind as but a recent example, as well as any number of the thoughts just now expressed here. Between the internet and the latest slap in the face of FSA2013, IP's and buyers both face considerable challenges, especially here in Maryland.

There's a guy by the name of Jeffrey Gitomer who made a helluva lot of money as the author of a book. Ironically enough, Gitomer essentially did nothing more in that book than to state the obvious. Thing is, the reason why he made a helluva lot of money is because "the obvious" is so very oftentimes today.....anything but.

The book was entitled:

Customer Satisfaction is WORTHLESS....Customer Loyalty is Priceless

The distinctions inherent to the wording of the above title are powerful, and can make for some potentially very worthwhile reading for any small business owner so inclined.

 

[TylerFirearms]

While I see what your going for here and no one can blame a little self promotion I have purchased many firearms online, specifically a highly regard one based in MD that pokes all kinds of hole in OPs theories......just saying.

It's not self-promotion. It's more "industry promotion". I've had quite a few conversations with other local gun store owners and they say the exact same things as my original post. It's more of a "here is why we do what we do". And, for the record, my original post and subsequent replies are not necessarily the opinion of other local gun store owners. They are mine and mine alone...

For example, I have a purple Ruger SR22 in stock. I paid $289.99 plus $12.95 to have it shipped to my store. It has a lifetime warranty from Davidson's. I charge $359. That's $56.06 in gross profit. Minus the $10 MSP fee, that leaves $46.06. Minus the trader's license, the Maryland dealer's license fee, the federal licenses, rent, electric, internet service for NICS checks, phone line to FAX the 77R, worker's compensation insurance, fire/theft insurance, liability insurance, and credit card fees, that leaves about $25 in net profit. When people want a $50 discount, I'm losing money. I guess I need to charge $650 then I can give people discounts...

 

[Hambone]

I oversee two retail stores in Maryland so I am probably biased. With that said, I always try to shop local unless I have no other options. The people working in these stores are the same people who live and spend money in my community. I would much rather support local businesses who in turn will spend money locally then to ship my money off to someone in Palo Alto.

 

[TylerFirearms]

I don't envision small gun shops surviving and I'm okay with it.

Don't get me wrong. We are profitable and will stay that way. We're not going anywhere...

 

[TylerFirearms]

Price your product competitive to the online vendors and I'll come to yoir store and buy something else on the way out the door after completing my initial purchase.

I can't match their pricing because my costs (a.k.a. taxes and fees) are substantially higher - especially here in Maryland.

I'll sell online only, but will have to transfer it to your local gun shop. Oh, wait. You won't have any of those because we'll all switch to e-commerce....

 

[t84a]

All the people talking about buying online and whining about LGS's trying to earn a buck are the same assholes wbo think whatever they're selling at any given time is worth 2x what any intelligent person would pay and 3x what they themselves would pay. Frankly, the LGS is better off without these "shoppers." They are probably the same ones who complained about Amazon charging sales tax and how they found other places to buy without legally paying sales or use tax.

 

[Dr.Duct_Mossburg]

I can't match their pricing because my costs (a.k.a. taxes and fees) are substantially higher - especially here in Maryland.

I'll sell online only, but will have to transfer it to your local gun shop. Oh, wait. You won't have any of those because we'll all switch to e-commerce....

I disagree with you. Your average Joe can become an FFL and pick up for himself where you all left off. I'm really not trying to stir the pot here but it's happening. I mentioned one person in my most but in actuality I know two people that have done this. They're average Joe's and just got tired of the gun stores mentality and arrogance, which you're slowly demonstrating in your post with you "oh wait, you wont" line. Don't pretend you're more important than you really are and let's keep this thread on a track to try and benefit all those who are reading.

 

[Dr.Duct_Mossburg]

Interesting thread. Lots of gun shop and customer service/perception related threads this year. Lots of dealers wanting to find and communicate a differentiator for their shop are concerned about their livelihood. Perhaps even more largely discouraged gun buyers. "Sometimes I Hate Gun Shops" comes to mind as but a recent example, as well as any number of the thoughts just now expressed here. Between the internet and the latest slap in the face of FSA2013, IP's and buyers both face considerable challenges, especially here in Maryland.

There's a guy by the name of Jeffrey Gitomer who made a helluva lot of money as the author of a book. Ironically enough, Gitomer essentially did nothing more in that book than to state the obvious. Thing is, the reason why he made a helluva lot of money is because "the obvious" is so very oftentimes today.....anything but.

The book was entitled:

Customer Satisfaction is WORTHLESS....Customer Loyalty is Priceless

The distinctions inherent to the wording of the above title are powerful, and can make for some potentially very worthwhile reading for any small business owner so inclined.

Fantastic post.

 

[Makanik]

Really good thread here! I like to fully support local businesses at all times over the internet or big box stores. I even went to the extreme this Holiday to not deal with any businesses that were open on Thanksgiving Day that did not allow employees to be home with family. That left me mainly local mom and pop establishments to shop. I did spend a little more but not much over the Holiday dampeners, but I felt good about what I did!

With all that said I will give my gun buying experiences in the last year. I purchased a regulated handgun from a local mom and pop ffl dealer and it was a very good experience with very good pricing. Not as cheap as internet shopping but with not having to pay for shipping and transfer fees it all equaled out. During my latest buying experience I called 3 IP's of choice on here just by reading remarks left by others on MDS. With that I was taken back by the pricing I was given, even telling them that I belonged to MDS and had to travel about 50 to 75 miles to get to them ($100 to $150 over internet pricing). I knew exactly what I wanted and all they had to do was get it in and sell it to me. I called the ffl dealer that I dealt with for my handgun and I was informed that they were leaving out of town for the Holidays and if I wanted to wait they would assist me upon return. I tried to call another dealer 5 times and was told that someone would get back to me and even to right now have not received a call back. From there I stopped into a new gun shop in Delaware (15 miles away) that has been open for only one month, though I know the owner is a well respected firearm advocate in the area. He gave me such a good price on my gun, Mini 14, that I ended up buying a 10/22 take down at the same time.

I am not trying to bash anyone that I called or that could not help me, but just telling my little story. Only thing I am throwing it out there for is that I was calling on the price of one rifle price and instead of giving me a good price up front it cost them on the sale of two.

 

[BUFF7MM]

I wish I had a local gun store to go to, closest one to me in Maryland is about half an hours drive, if you don't include the pawn shop.

 

[Dr.Duct_Mossburg]

instead of giving me a good price up front it cost them on the sale of two.

This is why local places tend to struggle to stay in business... They dont look at the big picture. You're not losing a sale, you're losing a customer.